Buenos dÃas mis amigos. With so many Spanish coaches, managers and players in English football now how long before the Premier League becomes La Primera Liga de Inglaterra and we sit down to watch the highlights on Partido de Futbol del Dia?
It's not going that way, we're already there. How many of us watch our 'televised' live matches on foreign networks on our PCs? Saints first team has more English players than most teams, and that's usually only 6 players. The national team has been **** for a while with no signs of improvement. All that's English about the PL is the team names. Even the best managers are Scottish
Not sure where this thread is going. When I read the title I was expecting to read a discussion on the finances of it and how long before it implodes. We live in the 2013 and a fairly open European and global market; so I don't see the issue with the Spanish players and managers, or the Scottish ones for that. A few years ago, it was all Italian; football is still here but the fad is different. If the implication of the thread is to discuss the poor tournament performances of the national side, then the number of non-English players will have a partial effect on that with less spaces for English players to be developed at the highest level. A big BUT though, is that I firmly believe that the problems with our national side lie in the fact that we don't teach our young (kids) players to play the game technically. All through kids football for the last 50 years and more, it has been about being the biggest and strongest and winning at all costs. Simple equations: Develop technically better footballers from ages 8-16 = less need to sign technically better Spanish/foreign players (if you see that as a problem) = more English players breaking through to PL sides as they would then be technically equal to other players = better national side I would also just add that having Spanish/foreign managers, in my opinion, actually helps develop our English players better. Coaching methods there are ahead of ours in the UK.
If you copy what others are doing then you are playing catch up and you will never be out in front. The really clever people are those who can see the future and plan for that. if you think that football is going to be played for ever in the Spanish/Barcelona way then what we are doing is the right thing. If you think the future will hold something very different then you need to anticipate what that difference will be well in advance. Then you lead. At the moment we are followers nationally. Nicola on the other hand is anticipating the future in the way that he is managing the finances of the club and minimising costs while maximising income. His business model is correct. At the same time he is putting in place the infrastructure to get the playing side right and it is the combination of the two that will carry us forward. So in reponse to PompeyLapras's comments on another thread we are not just chucking money at it.
If most teams keep playing foreigners, Saints could end up supplying the England team through our academy
FLT, you following this? I am not sure how we can anticipate the future, except that it will be different. I really don't care whether our manager is British or not. I am with FLT on kids football. I have coached at kids level and I was always horrified by the attitude of leading people in the game. The emphasis was never on skills training. It also encouraged "being thick". If you look at foreign players they are often much more articulate than their British counterparts. Even with his outrageous accent, Morgan can make more sense than many English born players. When Fabregas was at Arsenal he was interviewed at the same time as Gerrard. One of them needed sub-titles! While it is great that a kid from Croxteth can become a star footballer, it seems perverse that the culture of British football may well hinder the progress of middle class kids. Just a quick anecdote. A mate of mine has a son who at Everton's academy. Good footballer and very nice lad. Lining up to play against Liverpool, one of the Reds heard the lad talking, and said "I'm going to break your ****ing legs, you soft ****". This was overheard by the coaches of both teams. Action taken? The young Evertonian was told he needed to toughen up. He now plays cricket (which ain't a game for softies!). Last summer I took my grandchildren to "soccer school" here in France (and remember this is rugby playing France here) and the emphasis was all on skills with the ball. The kids picked up a lot of good French, the coach could explain in English if they didn't get it and it was a really positive experience. Back in the UK my experience of similar clubs is 5 minutes kicking a ball at the coach, and 55 minutes running around playing a "game" in which the biggest kids dominate the ball. If the arrival and success of Mauricio et al makes some football coaches re-think, then great.
To be fair to the FA Channon, verbally, they are making noises that they are trying to change this attitude. At a recent Welfare session which was aimed at removing the "aggressive shouting" at the kids by parents and coaches, I asked the presenter how the FA intend on "policing" this issue? The response? "Oh, no we are just giving the teams the message". What is needed is a team within each local FA enforcing this. The parents are a huge problem. I have one boy (aged 11) in my team, who gets extra pocket money for each goal he scores. I teach the boys to pass and move or dribble when appropriate. This lad is great for the first half of each game, but if he hasn't scored, then the longer the second half goes on, the more desperate to score he becomes. He stops passing and his Dad shouts "shoot", or "go on your own son", all the time. I have had words, but they then introduced code words... so when they shouted "wednesday" it meant Shoot! I have a lad in my team who is taller than me at 11. He is tall, strong, quick and powerful. After most games, the opponentts coach or the referee tell me how good he is. I am amazed as he has one of the worst "touches" in the team, but becasue he powers through several tackles (chasing his first touch), people think he's good. He will disappear in about 4 yeas when the others catch him up physicaly. In my ideal world, no parents would watch my teams games. No points would be awarded for any results in games until 14 or 15 years old. All players should be made to change positions until they are 15. Some of the above is starting to happen at Professional level. For example, my team played Northampton recently at a local school's astro pitch and the Cobblers coach asked me to tell our parents they couldn't stand on the edge of the pitch but had to stand another 15 yards back behind the fence.
I agree with some of your sentiments here Godders. Nicola does appear to be playing it right financially and we should be in a good position when and if, financial fair play ever actually is "fair". As for doing things the Spanish/Barca way, you are correct when you say things will change; they will evolve as their style has evolved. I only hope that evolution isn't full cirlce and heads back to up and at em.
Gerrard made it because he was big, strong and pacey. Close control counts for nothing when 11 year olds are playing on full size pitches with full size goals.
Can you expand on your your question so I know what it is you are asking me and what point you are trying to make. Thanks.
That thought occured to me too. We've already given the national teams Theo, Oxo and Bale and we weren't even in the Prem when they broke through to our first team.
???? There are only two Spanish managers ( one has only been here a month!) and no first choice members of the national side in the EPL, . 8 English managers( plus 4 Brits) and the Entire English squad, what is the point of this thread? Do you work for the Daily Hate Mail?
This thread was a tongue in cheek way of asking whether Spanish football is having too strong an influence on English football as many of us on this board take great delight in debating in a mature and sensible way the key issues affecting football. I am sorry if it was all way too far above your head. PS I'm too old to work for anybody let alone such a dreadful paper.
The questions are Godders, do you want to watch below average English football? if so there is always L1 and L2. Or would you prefer to watch good quality football with international players. A strange example for you, I have always worked in the restaurant business, when I started was the time that those bloody foreign chefs were coming over here, Roux brothers,Raymond blanc etc in fact my first Head Chef was Jean Christoph Neuvelli at Geddes resraurant (now closed) infront of the Red funnel Terminal. Before the French chefs arrived the Brits had a **** rep for food, now we have some of the best restaurants and chefs in the world. I believe English footballers can be the same. Do you think jWP will learn more from Ramirez or Chaplow ?
I fully support what has happened at Saints with overseas players in that we have a good balance and our ex Academy players are getting their chance and learning. I do get a little anxious when I see teams like Chelsea, Arsenal and Citeh play teams with very near 100% overseas players. In your analogy you explained the benefits of working alongside French Chefs and I agree but there were other influences not least an increase in overseas travel by Brits with experience of different cuisines meaning that they had raised expectations of food in restaurants when they came home and as always in a market economy restaurants had to respond or go under so it was a little bit of push and pull I think. But if you take Jack Cork as a footballing example you might like to say how he has benefitted from starting with a club that has an over reliance on overseas players. PS Your food analogy is a good one. Many years ago along with some friends I enjoyed an absolutely superb meal in a retaurant in Epernay in France. The food was so good that if ever we are in that area we invariably return to the same restaurant. A short while after that meal the same group of us ate in a pub near Romsey and it was ire. The food was awful and was served by a stropy 16 year old school girl and the ambience was dreadful. To make it worse the meal was more expensive. That was the point at which I became intolerant of poor food and service in pubs and restaurants in this country and I am sure my experience is not unique.
Oh boy Godders, don't get me started on that one... a whole new multi-page thread. By the way, I am looking forward to starting my new job next Monday.... the first week is at the office in Beaune in the heart of Burgundy; I can almost taste the fabulous food and wine now
I love Beaune especially the hospice with that fabulous tiled roof. I found it astonishing that they had that enormous dormitory where the sick and the poor would sometimes sleep three to a bed. I haven't eaten in Beaune so I can't recommend a restaurant as I have always stayed in Dijon on my journey down to Provence. I have several of those shallow wine tasting cups they use when you sample their wines. My favourite wines are the lovely deep dark red Rhone wines especially Gigondas. After that it has to be Spanish Ribera Del Duero from around Penafiel. I've always stocked up on it when staying in the region on my way down to and back from the Deltebre. You are a very lucky boy. Enjoy yourself.
