Can i ask if people think that gerrard is the type of guy who really needs to believe that he is right and also that the team around him is good to really play? Is it a case that with Suarez hitting goals and now sturridge coming in that gerrard has a bit of a spring in his step? Take norwich for example, he was putting himself about much more than previously and he seems to have stepped up a gear. Just don't tell me he was like this all year and i was just down on him cos frnakly if he was like this all year we'd not be where we are!
Not sure he really needed to 'step up a gear' against Norwich, they were awful. He needs to do it in the next two games To answer your question, I think Gerrard performs better when the chips are down, when he looks around and thinks 'what a load of ****, I'm going to have to do it myself'. With others performing around him he will no doubt get a buzz/lift but it also encourages the lazy side of his game, he then needs someone else to lead by example to get him to do it too IMO. He was never lazy when we had Mascherano and Alonso, they both worked hard every game.
I think he thrives on good players around him but the Gerrard playing well debate is still a matter of opinion, I think he's played well in most games just differently from his usual style.
I think its only a debate about his position in the team. He is undoubtedly playing well when we're attacking which is backed up by his goals and assists stats for this season. It is the laziness that bugs people, when he loses the ball and turns his back, wheres the old Gerrard that would chase and harass until he got it back?
I have been the first to call the lack of tracking back but really I have to say I think its cos he ought not to be playing every second of every game. I have seen him do precisely what you say, just turning his back and thinking he made the run forward so someone else should be covering anyway.. which is not a CMs job to think. anyway, i just think maybe he needs that little bit of incentive to give his best.
Which is what I meant when mentioning Alonso and Mascherano. If one does chases it encourages others to do the same. We need two or three players that are willing to do it every time so that BR's seven second idea can work. Look at Barca when they lose the ball, their players automatically spend the next five to ten seconds chasing whilst the defense get organised
Gerrard really devides people. You keep saying he's lazy. I for one think that charge is unfounded and that he's no more lazy than any other player in the squad. I could go as far as to say it's an insult to him. He is however an ageing player. We are never going to see the marauding box-box player of seasons past. However, he still has creative abilities, arguably the best range of passing in the squad (if not the Prem) and an eye for a goal opportunity. This season he has had to take on a number of different midfield roles and succeeded in all of them. I don't think that he is a belief player but I do think that he becomes frustrated with himself mainly. He does react when team-mates do not appear to be able to think as quickly as he does.
I agree... i think having players like that and torres and reina improved him to the point were he was at his best. you put him on a downer and he is the guy missing the target form positions where he used to blast them in from or scuffing it. suddnely v norwich its in and before that they were getting back on target. i hope he keeps the belief or whatever it is. (and henderson stays in to do his running and chasing with lucas)
As I said above, its when he loses the ball and just turns his back to it rather than try and regain possession. I actually think the word 'lazy' is harsh but don't know what else to call it.
Perhaps part of what you are seeing is professionalism. Every player knows what they are capable of and perhaps at that moment he recognises that he does not have the capacity to chase back? If Pirlo lost a ball in the middle of the opponents half, nobody would expect him to chase back and operate as a DM. So why are both you and MITO demanding that Gerrard does?
If its not Gerrard that lost possession and he was just making a run then its slightly different and I agree with your point. But if it is he himself who mis-placed a pass or kept the ball too long etc then I don't. It could be the pope himself that lost the ball, I would expect them to try and get it back, if not for themselves then for their teammates! I think this is a basic, for you mess up and lose possession you take responsibility and try to rectify the situation.
Sometimes you need to be more conservative, perhaps he's been told by the club physios that he needs to adjust his work rate to get the maximum out of him for the next few years. I do agree with you to an extent, but the difference over the last couple of months is that he's not giving the ball away/getting caught on the ball, we also have two very productive midfielders in Henderson and Lucas playing with him, I think Gerrard needs to play to his current strengths, and tracking back isn't one of them
True that he isn't giving the ball away as much, I'd say that is down to the training ground with BR wanting more movement. More movement makes passing much easier. Of course, no amount of movement helps a player find a pinpoint fifty yard pass though, he has been superb with these this season
there's too spearate points here for me. 1. if i saw pirlo making forward runs ahead of the ball i'd be frankly shocked. he plays deeper and stays with play so is nearly always able to be goal side without the same effort. Gerrard plays sometimes ahead of the ball and makes runs forward. this is just fine cos if you know this you're partners i ncrime like lucas and henderson ought to be stepping in to cover just like when a full back does forward you dn't just leave his slot empty.... I've no issue with him going forward and then being late getting back.. I don't expect a 50 yard sprint into position. 2. Lazyness. You said no more than the rest of our squad? does that mean none put i nthe effort? honeslty i've seen gerrard being just 5 yards ahead of the ball and standing watching the play develop... but then you see him suddnely appear in the game aound 75mins so this is why i have a problem with rodgers playing him in every single game for 90mins... bar a few games in cups wehre long trips or weak opposition was involved... I'd like to see him be subbed off and put whats i nthe tank into those 70mins not 90. .... plus as i said him and shelvey cannot play inthe same team in midfield as both do the same thing, this si why if we want shelvey to develop he's got to come on for gerrard sometimes... 3. there's no co-incidence our form at the back picked up with wisdom coming in... the athletism he's goes works, same for henderson. he's helping gerrard... the addition of sturrdige and goals going in has lifted everyone it seems but i can see gerrard lifted back to something like the game he should be capable of now... not 5 years ago.. putting himself about, being at the heart of things, mmaking the forward passes into those forwards and yes making the odd forward run too. I've no problem if physios tell him to adjust but his own words were thats not the case. then if it is why does he get ahead of play, why not sit in and spray it about so he is a genuine midfielder... just a question. my opinion genuinely hand on heart is ANYONE from prilo to xavi to gerrard to lampard or whomever you name HAS TO track back and get in position. genuine midfielders will be level with the ball so if its up at the opposition box they are just behind for a shot or maybe play that one two etc. if its on the half way line they are just i ntheir half and if its near your own box they are screening the back 4.... If someone like xavi didn't do that for barca there'd be more gaps and barca would get walked through.. barca might have 70% of the ball but they don't let in goals from that 30% for a reason. DMS like busquets or alonso or lucas might sit deeper and be the first guy there but they can't screen the entire back 4 can they? they work at stopping breaks and being the guy breaking things up but one guy can be passed round pretty easy. just my opinion.... and its why i think aquilani flopped and others like sahin flop. you need to be in there. Anyway, now gerrard has two targets to pass to I think his tail is up and i hope our form keeps improving as a result.
there's too spearate points here for me. 1. if i saw pirlo making forward runs ahead of the ball i'd be frankly shocked. he plays deeper and stays with play so is nearly always able to be goal side without the same effort. Gerrard plays sometimes ahead of the ball and makes runs forward. this is just fine cos if you know this you're partners i ncrime like lucas and henderson ought to be stepping in to cover just like when a full back does forward you dn't just leave his slot empty.... I've no issue with him going forward and then being late getting back.. I don't expect a 50 yard sprint into position. 2. Lazyness. You said no more than the rest of our squad? does that mean none put i nthe effort? honeslty i've seen gerrard being just 5 yards ahead of the ball and standing watching the play develop... but then you see him suddnely appear in the game aound 75mins so this is why i have a problem with rodgers playing him in every single game for 90mins... bar a few games in cups wehre long trips or weak opposition was involved... I'd like to see him be subbed off and put whats i nthe tank into those 70mins not 90. .... plus as i said him and shelvey cannot play inthe same team in midfield as both do the same thing, this si why if we want shelvey to develop he's got to come on for gerrard sometimes... 3. there's no co-incidence our form at the back picked up with wisdom coming in... the athletism he's goes works, same for henderson. he's helping gerrard... the addition of sturrdige and goals going in has lifted everyone it seems but i can see gerrard lifted back to something like the game he should be capable of now... not 5 years ago.. putting himself about, being at the heart of things, mmaking the forward passes into those forwards and yes making the odd forward run too. I've no problem if physios tell him to adjust but his own words were thats not the case. then if it is why does he get ahead of play, why not sit in and spray it about so he is a genuine midfielder... just a question. my opinion genuinely hand on heart is ANYONE from prilo to xavi to gerrard to lampard or whomever you name HAS TO track back and get in position. genuine midfielders will be level with the ball so if its up at the opposition box they are just behind for a shot or maybe play that one two etc. if its on the half way line they are just i ntheir half and if its near your own box they are screening the back 4.... If someone like xavi didn't do that for barca there'd be more gaps and barca would get walked through.. barca might have 70% of the ball but they don't let in goals from that 30% for a reason. DMS like busquets or alonso or lucas might sit deeper and be the first guy there but they can't screen the entire back 4 can they? they work at stopping breaks and being the guy breaking things up but one guy can be passed round pretty easy. just my opinion.... and its why i think aquilani flopped and others like sahin flop. you need to be in there. Anyway, now gerrard has two targets to pass to I think his tail is up and i hope our form keeps improving as a result.
MITO, thanks for your reasoning because it really helps in understanding your points. Now this is only my opinion but to try and answer some of your points: Gerrard gets ahead of the ball because he's attempting to be the player 'in the hole' who can either deliver the killer pass or take on a strike on goal himself. This can leave him exposed anywhere in the opponents half - but more especially in the final third. From Junior school onward, we were always taught not to chase the man with the ball when he had gone past you. Leave him to another defender whilst you make your way back to add cover. That teaching still holds good and may go some way to explaining what both you and Gerrez believe that you are seeing.
Fordeck, you are right gerrard does try to be that guy... the thing is... not since rafa has be actually been that guy. in a 4-3-3 i suppose he can be it a bit more but if two men have to cover two full backs and him going forward then thats where goals conceeded come from. I also agree, don't chase the man in possession, fill in the gap. thats what i'm seeing. lucas and say allen are trying to screen the whole back 4 and are bascially not able to do it cos they et passed about. when we don't have the ball and have everyone back in position then we don't conceed too many. BUt then again... i guess a bit of desperation to get a goal can explain over committing players and now we've guys knocking them in guys are more balanced and able to use the ball to kill teams.... I guess we'll see in the next two games, particulalry arsenal. if you give them spaces thier pce can kill you but they are nowhere near where they ought to be and midfield can be the key. stop walcott and carzorla and you stop arsenal... vermalean will have to be at his cheating best to cope with suarez and sturridge.
When a player has gone past you, fair enough. When you have given that player the ball/possession, not a chance, get it back! If a player does not chase and attempt to undo their mistake it bleeds through the team, it sends out the signal to the whole team that you don't care about the team and you are in it for yourself. Whether that is actually the case or not is irrelevant. To make it clear, I am not criticising Gerrard for getting forward, I want him to do this since he is one of our most likely players to actually score! I am not criticising Gerrard for not tracking back if someone else loses possession. And, I am not criticising Gerrard for not getting back into position quick enough. I am focusing purely on when HE loses the ball and is just a few yards away yet doesn't attempt to get the ball back, instead chosing to turn away in disgust with himself!
