I just think pointing out that an ugly person is ugly is not equally as justifiable as pointing out that a black person is black. Both are generally unnecessary, I agree, but one is an insult and one isn't. Calling Anichebe a "big, black man" on air seems odd, but I don't think it's wrong. There would rightly be more of a public backlash if Dave Merrington called a player ugly. It's just mean.
The main distinction is that calling someone ugly is undesirable and offensive, calling someone black is not. Regardless of how true it is. Otherwise how far can we stretch it? Calling someone a man isn't undesirable or offensive (unless they're a female, calling Sian Massey mannish would be offensive) and that's an accurate description, as is calling him black.
You're still missing the point. I was arguing with his specific contention that because something is true it's fine to say it. I never said it wouldn't be controversial to call Rooney ugly on air, quite the opposite in fact — I was deliberately using it as an example of something that is widely considered to be true but would still not be fine to say.
I'm not missing your point, you're missing mine now. I think it is fine, if a little odd, to call Anichebe a "big, black man" on air. I would defend Merrington's right to say that on air, but I wouldn't defend his right to call a person ugly.
I don't know why you're so insistent to tell me you think it's fine to call Anichebe black but not Rooney ugly, I have never said otherwise. I'm tired of explaining myself now, other people can read and understand what I have said even if you won't.
I think the defining point here is that he used the word "black" as an adjective and not as a "noun". "that big black up front" is much more offensive than "that big black guy" as one is a description, the other implies that it's a primary characteristic. It's pointless anyway, as a professional commentator should be able to remember his name, especially if the skin colour causes him to stand out in his memory as much as it clearly did to DM. To quote the late George Carlin "we need fewer lablels, not more"
Noticing the presence of Ron Atkinson creeping on to our Radio a little more and he used the N word. Merrington is an oldish man having to commentate on radio and deliver his words quickly. Anichebe was referred to as Anchovy by David Pleat last week. If you have an elderly relative you know they are always getting names muddled and forgotten. No malice in it and just funny
Each and everyone of you has missed the real issue here: How can the big, white, Geordie fella be expected to say Anneechabee with all those vowels, in a high pitched NE accent without sounding like he sneezed on air?
I don't think age is the excuse for David Pleat, he's been an appalling commentator as long as I can remember.
Right, imagine you are the radio show's producer, and the man you are responsible for, live on air, repeatedly refers to the black players by their skin colour, "oh, the black lad has won a penalty for them", "that's a great effort by the black fella!" - Would you have a word with him about doing it? I would. Describing someone as "black" or "white" is not the same as describing someone as "tall, "short", "thin", "ugly" etc, due to the uncomfortable presence of racism throughout the history of most cultures, including our own. It was only last year that Terry and Suarez got into trouble, was it not? Would Terry have had so much grief if he had called Anton Ferdinand a "silly bastard", rather than whatever it was he said? No, he wouldn't. Of course, in certain situations it is fine to describe someone by their skin colour. It is after all, a clearly defining feature, and ideologically, it should cause no discomfort on part of the listener. However, it does, because of a phenomenon known as 'otherisation', in which the dominant cultural group (ie; white Anglo-Saxon), not only looks for labels to describe non-members of their group, but also attaches implications of a derogatory and inferior nature. Even by offering praise to this "other", it is still regarded as derogatory since the implication may be interpreted as "wow, even though he is black, he still did something as well as 'we' can". This is the underlying nature of racism. It goes much deeper than simple name-calling. I know Merington did not mean this in the slightest, it was just a slip of the tongue. But it could still cause discomfort for certain listeners.
I think you are taking this slightly out of proportion. The fact of the matter is, Anichebe was, as Merrington said, the big black guy upfront, and for this to cause you discomfort i think you would have severe issues. I feel the point you are making is invalid because Anichene was the only 'Big black guy upfront' so id you were not to address him by his name, as any half decent commentator should, how would you describe him? What defines him from anyone else Everton had upfront, the answer? He is big and black.
Yes, severe issues. If you can't accept that Anichebe's definitive features, other than his name of course, are his size and his ethnicity, then i feel you are far too sensitive and need to wake up to the real word and realise there is nothing racist, or offensive about using somebodies ethnicity to describe them. Gold sticker for a high class response by the way, nothing like a debate ay?
You picked out one throw away statement from my whole argument and chose to ignore the rest. At no stage have i directly insulted anybody, although i may not have put it as clearly as i should of, the issue comment was meant as in you must have an issue with DM. Whilst i apologize for not making this clear, I feel i made several good points in my comment which you chose to completely ignore, which in any case, took away the debate part of this thread.
The other points that you made are actually points that I have already spoken in agreement with earlier in the thread.
So why are you discrediting my comments for saying that you clearly have an issue with DM if you are offended by him calling Anichebe the big black guy?
