Absolutely! But I assume you do not mean that we should have shown Dean Hammond loyalty, by playing him this season? After all he had helped the team get promoted. Do you mean their was no integrity in the way that Pardew was sacked after winning the JPT. I understand the point you make, but professional players and manager are paid vast sums of money and it goes with the territory that if a better player or coach is found then it's thanks for everything and goodbye. Nigel knew that as well as anyone. In any case, judging by what Nigel said after the Coventry game, how do we know that he had not already been informed that he would have to make a flying start to keep his job, or that it was unlikely that he would? He is a young manager who is still learning (and fast!) and I am sure will have a fantastic career ahead of him. We don't know what was discussed and I am not prepared to make sweeping generalisations about someone whom I have never met.
Great stuff Godders, and Channon too. Dean Hammond, Billy Sharp, Dan Harding and so on all played their part in taking us to the Prem but when we got there they weren't considered good enough, so were let go. The situation is exactly similar to that of Nigel. Cortese in his wisdom doesn't see him as the catalyst to take us to the next level, even if we as supporters do. So, hard as it is, he has to go.
Good post StG, and I'm sure it speaks for several Saints fans, although it doesn't speak for me. As I mentioned in a previous post, I have long been fed up with Saints being a measure of mediocrity. If Saints belong to the modern game then I don't want them there just to make up the numbers. I want them properly competing and beating other teams, and becoming more successful than they have ever been. Football Focus on BBC1 Adkins.
Please read the last part of my post again TSS: I have to ask myself whether I share Nicola's vision for the future or if I hanker for the Saints of old. If I wish to remain a Saints fan it has to be the former for the latter is no longer in existence. So it has to be thanks Nigel Adkins and good luck to you and welcome Mauricio Pochettino. I think the fact that I have accpted that we have moved on and are now very different club is clearly made.
I think it is fair to say that every club wishes to improve and wants to win as many games as possible. I guess you have to decide what you as a fan want or pay to enjoy: would you rather be mingling with the players and fans of other teams like we did in League One and the Championship or would you rather be seduced by the glitz and the glamour of the modern day Premier League, which is money rich, ruthless but can also be captivating. Do you feel a connection and catered for, that is the question and decision one must make?
Cortese was very clear at the beginning what his ambition was. He said, 'I keep being told that Southampton stayed in the PL for 27 years...I don't regard survival alone as success.' He wants us in Europe by playing the right way. He wants us to play exciting football, fuelled by an Academy playing the same style, and he wants us to do it fairly (no cheating, arguing with refs etc). He wants everything done the right way, especially financially. Surely, no fan can argue with that. I think that he picked Nigel to get us promotion, but may never have thought he was right for us in the PL. However, he gave him a chance. Nigel and the team (not Nigel alone) struggled in the initial batch of games, so Nigel had to rethink and has made the team more successful. Many will think NA has done the right thing and survival is the most important thing, but he had to impress one man (the one who had the power to sack him). Nicola may be unrealistic but he answers to the Leihberrs, and this was his call. We have to hope Nicola is right.
Plenty of fans of the big clubs have had to tackle this question. Chelsea embraced it full on and have had undoubted success, but have had to pay the high prices and accept the decisions of one man. Some Manchester United fans decided they no longer wanted to support a brand and line the pockets of the owners. They set up FC United. If you feel that the road saints are taking is not for you then don't buy a ticket or the shirt and perhaps go watch Eastleigh or Winchester, but don't tell others they have to boycott games.
Ask Dean Hammond!!!! Didn't see too many tears from the fans on that one!!! Captain to sorry not good enough within days. I see no difference here. We can argue if Adkins was good enough or not but we can't start talking about loyalty etc. This is football and we demand 'performers' capable of performing at this level. There is no vote from the community on this. Cortese has to make the big call. Pretty similar to Strachan's stance with Le Tissier. No room for sentiment.
This NC-top 6-champions league vision sounds great, but the reality is that Saints are a provincial club. We don`t come from a big city, and inevitably (as in any league in the world), that`s where the regularly successful clubs come from. So, if we do reach those dizzy heights, how do we sustain it ? How do we avoid collapsing like a pack of cards if the family backing goes ?
Yes, I understand that StG, but you made a point about Saints fans relaxing into the family club of old. You said... Over the last few months I believe we had slipped back into being the fans of the old Southampton FC. That attitude has never been mine... ever. I was sick and tired of it when I realised that Saints were going into a slow decline in the early 1990's. There was no way they were going to keep up, and it wouldn't be long before relegation would follow relegation and Saints would take their place amongst the 2nd, 3rd or lower division clubs. Incidentally, if there's a single thing Lowe can be thanked for it was to move Saints out of the dwindling ruin that was The Dell [much as I liked the old girl] and made some right moves with no money. That stopped the rot for a while. As I have said many times before, I wish the Premier League and SKY TV had never come about because, if that had remained the case, we could still have our family club and be reasonably successful. So I'm not the fan you portray in your post as I never slipped back. Good post though it is, as it rings true for many. I do realise that you have accepted the club has moved on, and that is good for you, but the club changed fundamentally in July 2009. On various football forums, Saints Web and since I registered here on Not606, I have been saying as such, and I accepted it right there and then. Clubs like ManU, Arsenal, etc... changed their business mindset right from the beginning of the Premier League. Saints were a little late to the party and still have some catching up to do. But it is happening and, as I have also mentioned many times before, us fans have to realise it. Cortese said this, in 2009, on taking over... I have been running the Club as Markus' representative since 8 July and a good start has been made in recruiting well regarded senior staff and our new First Team Manager, who have begun putting together the strategies for on and off field success. But it is only a start. We have been reviewing, and will continue to review, every aspect of the Club. We will be applying policies to our football team, commercial operations, financial structures, community work and fan communications which ensure that we run as a first-in-class football club and business. I realise that there are great expectations and I will ensure that every effort is expended to meet these expectations, but effectively we need to restructure and create a solid base from which we can build and become successful. This will take time. We will take our example from our supporters, who already are what we aim to become – Premier League. With their support we will again become a Premier League Club. The supporters, the City of Southampton and the region deserve nothing less. Everyone at the Club will be fully committed to responding to this great challenge. That excited the hell out of me [and still does] because finally we had an owner who wasn't interested in bumbling along being second best. Cortese is still expending every effort and if anything, us fans need to raise our expectations, because his are undoubtedly higher than ours, at present. So, as you say... Thanks Nigel and welcome Mauricio. On with the story. Chapter 3 is about to begin..?
Is all we care about results? Is that the one thing you care about your football club. Not for me not one bit. It's important but the reason Saints are soo important to me is that they're part of my identity. I share the common support of the club with thousands of people from the city I love. I feel proud to be a loyal supporter and be there in the hard times aswell. I feel the club represents the city and so when we do good things like bring through talented youngsters I feel proud to see those players associated with my club and city. What I don't feel proud about is treating a legend whom I felt proud to have as the manager with such little respect. Perhaps this may lead to better results but I feel football is so so much more than just that and I'd rather have worse results but have pride in my club. At the moment I feel very little pride being associated with the club. I just hope cortese realises football means more than he might have though but if he doesn't and continues to act in such a manner I don't think I will feel in the same way again.
This post puts in place my thoughts quite well; everyone, including myself, was thinking about Saints as a small club in EPL. Our objective was probably to first establish ourselves as a proper EPL team by staying up for a few seasons... but then what? Cortese obviously wants to take Saints into EU and from his track record at Saints thus far, he has been very consistent in acting in the best interests of the club towards that objective from League One. They say nice guys finish last- it's very clear then that Cortese is not interested in finishing last. Of course, I can't help but feel a sense of betrayal towards the values of loyalty, integrity and a basic sense of decency from the sacking of Adkins; one would think that he deserves at least one season in the EPL from his achievements… we could also say the same of Dean Hammond and Billy Sharp who brought us up to EPL… but is Adkins good enough? Personally, despite our good run of form, I have found myself questioning Adkins’ tactical acumen- we should’ve won the games against Stoke and Arsenal- I thought we didn’t control the game in the 2nd half vs Stoke and should’ve went for a killer blow against Arsenal, who was playing really poorly. Against Villa, we were playing against kids and couldn’t kill them off. While I didn’t watch the Chelsea game live, the starting line-up bemused me. And it couldn’t have pleased Cortese that we didn’t even show up at Anfield. Overall, these results were not bad in itself with our past in mind and part of me thinks that the results justifies the manager- but again, if viewed with Cortese’s objective/s for the future- competing for Honours- it clearly was not good enough. While things might change, it probably won’t be fast enough for Cortese. Part of me also thinks that Adkins ought to be given a chance to ‘learn’, but again- Cortese wants S’ton challenging for Honours, not grooming managers- go learn the ropes at another club, not here. So if you’re Cortese and you have doubts about the manager’s ability, do you really want to wait till we have a bad run of form and end up fighting for survival before deliberating whether to sack Adkins or get in a new manager- like so many newly promoted sides did and failed? Do you want to wait till the **** hits the fan and then end up deciding between being “decent and having faith in Adkins” and “survival”? Undoubtedly, Cortese made the decision first before the **** came; only time will tell whether the decision is correct. We could argue that with the current crop of players, what Adkins has achieved is pretty darn good and the EU objective is just not going to happen w/o better players and might be a tad unfair on Adkins. Then again, having a reputable manager is key to attracting top players and Cortese probably thinks Adkins is lacking in this regard. At the end of the day, the fallout from Adkins’ sacking seem to be on moral-ethical-value reasons rather than concerns on Southampton FC… so each of us has to decide whether this is the Saints FC we want to support. For me, I think we have to ditch the small club mentality and aim big, our Chairman demands it. Cortese probably believes that Liebherr and the suffering Saints fans for the past decade or so deserves nothing less…. Do we? Of course I’m nervy and anxious… it will be a wild ride and perhaps a tad ambitious… but what’s the worst? We could always fall back on being an established side in the EPL [Fulham springs to mind], but it sure would annoy me to no end if we didn’t even bother to try for EU; arguably, having a ‘survival first’ and ‘decency’ mentality is an obstacle. After all, there have been many promoted sides that went for ‘decency’, didn’t achieve anything and still sticking around. Keep the Faith!!!
A good post from Godders. As Cortese has said before, our set-up is that if the management team (Adkins, Crosby, Wilkins etc.) move on, the project and programme continues. So, best of luck Mauricio and lets hope we can continue the journey and project together with great success.
