Exactly Dan - he inspired people not because he was a multi-millionaire and was hugely successful (yeah, that is now completely tainted because of the drug cheating) but he fought back just to be able to sit on a bike again. If there is one thing that the LA haters and admirers would agree on is that he is a hugely driven man and drove himself too far in the wrong direction. No one can defend the drug taking, but the vilification by people who could either notl live the environment of team cycling at the time or whose motive is to save their own necks is also somewhat distasteful. Interesting article: http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/26/magazines/fortune/peloton_greatteams_fortune_0612/
That is a very good and insightful article w_y. I think that the last paragraphs seem ironic after what has come out. Very good post from harrow. I feel cheated by him as I am sure my French neighbour does. Both of us thought that the French press were simply looking for a story and thought that because of the number of tests LA had taken without any problems they were barking up the wrong tree.
No, of course I'm not seriously comparing the offences. But he didn't just 'take a few drugs to win bike races'. He destroyed careers, he intimidated, he would sue anyone at the drop of a hat to shut them up. He issued ultimatums to his own team members to 'get with the programme' or get out. Most of those who have been involved in cycling have known what was going on for years but dared not speak. I have on good authority from someone not a million miles away from Vicarage Road that a cycling magazine was thinking about publishing an article 'It's not about the Truth' back in 2003 but the company lawyers had a fit - because Armstrong's bully boys would issue a lawsuit and tie them up without breaking stride. And Wear Yellow - you miss my point. I didn't notice Bradley Wiggins or Team Sky bullying a rider or harrying them out of the sport because they were making a stand about drugs. Tour stages will always be controlled by the teams - breakaways will be allowed if they pose no danger to the teams with a shout of GC, it lets the teams recover, chasing costs energy. They are not chased down because a spiteful megalomaniac has got it in for someone. I come across American cycling enthusiasts as (a major) part of my work and as recently as this summer, 90% were adamant that any allegations were just jealous lies made up by the French; they were like religious zealots in their willful blindness to stuff that has long been in the public domain. Even now, as evidenced on these pages, there are people who are willing to make allowances for the man. I'm sorry, I just don't get it.
wear_yellow, Armstrong sued the Sunday Times for libel action and won nearly £1 million in damages as they accused him of using drugs. He's not just a drug cheat, he's a fraud. People do indeed 'drive themselves in the wrong direction' in sport sometimes, but they dont commit what surely must amount to a criminal offence?
emiatss - why did the Sunday Times not defend themselves against Armstrong? It was because at the time there was no evidence and they would have lost. Newspapers are fine to libel people who do not have the ability (money) to fight back, but they are not so quick when they have someone who will fight back. Of course he would fight back as he had so much to lose at the time if he did not. I have heard that journo being interviewed many many times and he never once could describe any hard evidence - it was all hearsay and gossip at the time. If they were that convinced at the time they should have got the evidence and fought it out in court. I am not aware that talking performance enhancers or have blood transfusions is a criminal offence - it is against the rules of sport. I am probably struggling to make my point. Of course LA was wrong to take drugs to improve his performance, but I cannot understand the utter vilification (people calling him an utter c****) for him, whilst others who have openly admitted they did the same and who testified against him to save their own skins and not treated in the same way.The BBC trawl these people out (there is even one who has written a book about it and they help him promote it) as some sort of heroes and yet they did exactly the same.
Dan I think that comment of Harrow was very heavy in irony - not to be taken seriously Armstrong now wants to compete again - I would let him - from his prison yard he could do a fast walk - he needs to be locked up for fraud and theft - I wonder how many millions he got paid for the Oprah interview.
wear-yellow - not sure why you are so keen to defend LA. I am not much interested in cycling and had no real feelings pro or anti the guy - admired the charity good he did and his win against cancer - could do with some of that here - and refused to condemn someone until they were found guilty - I still believe in the principle of innocent till proved guilty. However now that he has admitted it you have to look back and consider everything he did and said and that makes him a very bad person - on a greater scale than many other cheats - lots of other people help charities without getting even acknowledged and certainly without lying cheating and defrauding others. Those people deserve our praise. At the risk of Dan taking this the wrong way - irony alert - if we are to forgive wrongdoing because a man is driven to achieve there is a nasty little Austrian who was very driven a few years back - I am sure he supported causes dear to his heart.
Angry tbh, always put him down as one of the sporting hero's. More angry at the fact that he did his interview with Oprah though this way he could plan every answer instead of a reputable sport journalist who could have at least ripped into him a bit and got more of the truth. . . the stuff that the press didn't already know about Armstrong
Should be wiped from history. He achieved nothing, the scientists did it all including cure the pitiful excuse of a human being.
Blimey Aberdeen - I often seem to see myself at the extreme end but I think you have beaten me this time
I wouldn't - a liar, cheat , bully and thief is just that and his nationality has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of good honest sports men and women out there so let's support them
I hate cheats, in sport, in life. I couldnt give a damn about nationality, and one of the sad facts is the reflection on sport and the doubt about others cleanliness that results. Just wait until we find out what the chinese do to their swimmers.
You are probably right - shame that a person like this though takes away a lot from all the good honest people around
I've no knowledge one way or the other regarding drug abuse by Chinese athletes - but could their success not be down to their attitude towards whatever endeavour they undertake? I've experienced first hand the hours their children put in daily, both at school and at extra-curricular activities and I'm damned sure that the large majority of their Western counterparts would give up after a day if they were asked to do the same. Hard work breeds success, practice makes perfect etc etc.....
No, they've exceeded genetic possibility without external engineering, it'll come out sooner rather than later I hope.
Ok so he's just a git. He should apologose properly to me, Frenchie, harrow and any other fans of cycling. And everyone else. Is there a way back for Lance - I can't see it.. Then again Bjarn Rijs won the tour in 1996, then admitted doping, and then became a team manager. UCI need to explain how Lance passed all the tests over those years.
The history of sport is littered with those who sought advantage by trying to find ways round the rules. I suppose most of the dubious practices came into being because larger and larger sums were being staked on the outcomes. I don't see this as a defence of Armstrong, but simply an observation that the higher the stakes become the greater the likelihood someone will try to bend the rules. Where Armstrong differs from many others is perhaps in the way he exploited his success, promoted himself as a charity superstar and then denied any wrong-doing long after his credibility had been undermined. It's a sad story which does nothing for cycling or for professional sport in general.
