Due in part to the rapid rise of Norwich City there are a number of players at the club who (some through no fault of their own) are realistically never going to be regular first choice for the first team. Especially if we are able to stregthen in this window and then the summer the likes of Morison, Fox, Jackson(?), Surman, Lappin, C.Martin etc are always going to be fringe players at best. In an ideal world, we would ship these guys out and wish them all the best for their future careers, most have served us well at times during their stint here but ultimately there is little room for sentiment in football, not if you want to be successful. Thing is, although most if not all are very capable Championship players, will we have trouble moving them on? I know our wage structure is not huge but it IS premier league. However little we ask in transfer fees any move would almost certainly involve players taking a wage cut. Would they be prepared to move on? I suppose the carrot for them is regular first team football but some of them might want to see out their contracts and take the cash. We could either end up with a number of players taking salaries each month even though they are not in the 25 man squad or we will include them and so limit our options in strengthening. I guess this is the same for most prem clubs.... Thoughts?
surely in every 25 man squad there are always going to be fringe players. rudd tierney barnett ward francomb surman fox butterfield lappin morison jackson is a pretty good top end of championship team
Absolutely, but if we are going to grow as a club then we need to be looking to sign players who are better than what we have. If we do this then some of the current first team (and by that I mean the 15 or 16 players that regularly get a game) will become the 'fringe' players who are called upon when a little squad rotation is needed. This means the players who are currently rarely if ever used are going to be very much surplus to requirements. In the days before the 25 man rule it just meant extra strength in depth, but now things are different. for an effective 25 man squad you need 2 players for every position with a few 'utility' guys who can between them cover as many of the 11 positions as possible to give 3 possibilites in as many positions as possible. All I am saying is that it is fine to go out and spend cash on new tallent (I will be disapointed if we don't!) but as for a few comments I have read here where people just assume that those not wanted can be shipped out... ...I don't know if it will be as easy as that.
I wouldn't myself call all of them deadwood, but agree with the subject of the post. I think Fox and Surman would get into a top half championship club easily. I can see maybe a couple moving in January if there are buyers. what's interesting is how we have moved on - a lot of these players where playing a lot last season for us, and now they aren't getting a sniff. Shows how better our first team / top 15 players are compared to some of the other squad members.
agree with this. many of those players are not 'deadwood' - they are important squad members who could come in at any time and do a decent job. if a sizeable offer comes in for any of them then i'm sure we might sell, but the term deadwood is wrong. i would say simon lappin probably is (unfortunately) and probably ward at this stage. none of the others are though
And if you end up spending a fortune on your second XI will your income allow you to make a profit Lets keep competitive and profitable mid table without paying stupid money for bench sitters Slowly develop the squad if we ever go down we won't be lumbered with a pile of silly contracts
after our dramatic rise to the top table, to stay there long term progress will need to be slow and steady. some people seem unable to accept that though and want to spend, spend, spend* *nobody on here thankfully!
Would you classify either Vaughan or Ayala as deadwood and think they should go if Huddersfield or Forest made an offer for them this month? If Ayala returned would he be on the bench behind Turner and Bassong but ahead of R Bennett? If we do not get in a new striker is it worth invoking a recall clause (if it exists) to bring Vaughan back. Personally I would like to see both players back, although if early discussion about Vaughan not settling in Norwich are true then let him move on. Those who I hope will move on this month for the sake of their careers are Smith, Martin, Lappin and Ward.
neither player are 'deadwood' because they could arguably both come back and do a job for us. however, certainly in the case of vaughan and possibly in the case of ayala (depending on fees of course), a case could be made to sell both. long term replacements (of a higher calibre) would need to be signed but there would be no rush because they currently are not playing for us anyway!
I've said on other threads that I don't think we'll see either Vaughan or Ayala back. Bassong and Turner seem the first choice pairing with Ryan Bennett and probably Rusty the next fall back with Barny fifth choice currently - at best Ayala would be fourth choice and I think the club would benefit by selling him and he'd benefit from a move by getting regular first-team football. Vaughan won't come back, which is a shame - he'll probably move to the Terriers if they want to make the deal permanent in the summer.
I am really dissapointed with Vaughan. I really thought he had a bright future with us but it just never happened for him. Everytime I saw him he looked good and determined and I saw the despair on his face when he limped off in the Sunderland game and also the mess of his face after the West brom game. I heard from someone quite close to the club that he never really enjoyed his time in Norwich and did not like the City and was angling for a move back up north, he also spent most weekends in Liverpool going out. Like I said, a bit of a shame. I spoke to Ayala once in Sainsburys at longwater and he was a nice chap, limited English but shook my hand and was polite. He was also injured at the time and said how desperate he was to get back playing again.
kemp, re: vaughan, i know exactly what you mean and i've heard exactly the same things as you. sadly, it was always destined to be doomed for failure
I also heard that even when Hughton came in and offered him a fair crack at the whip he was reluctant to give it a go and was in the city even less. I guess it can't work out all the time, a bit like Steven Smith.
all i know is that he spent more time away from norwich than he did there. i feel he always gave 100% on the pitch but he couldn't wait to go back up north. he'll be sold i'm sure - hopefully huddersfield can keep him fit (cos they haven't so far) and will buy him in the summer
Maybe Dead Wood was the wrong title for this topic. The point I was making was that there are currently players at the club who seem to be surplus to our current requirements. I personally would love to see 1 or 2 come in this month to strengthen a little and to keep it fresh. If this happens some players currently in the 25 will have to make way. The point I was getting at is that even if (and I find it likely) that there are top end Championship (if not prem) suitors for these players, ultimately they will almost certainly have to take a pay cut to move. Who is to say they will be prepared to chuck in a nice PL salary for a champ one. A player cannot be sold unless he wants to go. The contract works both ways. For this reason it may not necessarily be a simple matter of moving players on. In most cases you would hope that regular football would lead players aspiratons, the need to improve and become better. We cannot take that for granted though. Some may just choose to see out their contract.
If I am right Smith, Lappin, Ward and Martin all have contracts that expire in June this year. If they have no future with us I am sure they would take a pay cut for the security of a longer contract if the chance arose. Remember that is why the Admiral left us for Scunthorpe in the January transfer window a few seasons back.
This would be the one reason to take a pay cut. I am not sure on the contract length of any of the lesser used players. Might really help us out if there are a few to expire in the summer.
