Is the Premier League getting stronger or weaker?

I think the goalscoring is to do with the top teams concentrating more on attack. As more sides join Stoke in becoming far more drilled and very single minded in their approach to defending a 0-0 it has meant that top teams don't win the league for being defensively sound, it's increasingly becoming about making sure you have the fire power.

Every season is different though so making domestic comparisons is a bit pointless. You could say the quality of the league is better because teams like City and Newcastle who did well last year and didn't make many changes in the summer are now struggling much more. It wouldn't be true though, for whatever reason it seems that no matter how great your side is, if you don't make some big changes in the summer you'll struggle in the following season, just look at the invincibles. You can draw all the conclusions you want for this domestic season but the fact is that we've had seasons like this before in terms of points levels, teams being cut adrift and goal differences, the only difference is that there's a few more goals overall.

What has definitely changed though is that in Europe the already rich big clubs like Juventus, Madrid and Bayern have re-awoken whilst new money clubs are coming through all the time, the Premier League sides just simply haven't progressed similarly making things more crowded. When we were getting 2/3 English teams in the CL semis every year Real Madrid were very beatable, Barcelona were just getting back into things and Milan were probably the only side outside of the Premier League who were at their best in that period. It's not all that different in the Premier League either, there are more organised sides and more quality(if inconsistent) sides than 6/7 years ago.

Case closed

 

Carry your bag sir?

 

I don't know where the idea comes from that the top sides are weaker.

When Utd first won the PL, the team consisted of mainly British players. Whilst some- Bruce, Ince, Parker, Irwin- were recognised for their battling qualities in a hard, physical league, none would have been mentioned amongst the best in the world. There were only 14-15 first team quality players in the squad, the rest being youngsters or journeymen like Blackmore.

When Utd won the treble in 1999 and dominated the league the next season, the squad still only had 16-17 players, mostly homegrown. Many of the foreign players were cheap imports like Berg, Johnsen and Solskjaer.

Now all the top sides have squads of 25+ quality players. Many of the top English players are at the top few clubs. City can also buy world stars like Kompany, Toure, Silva, Aguero and Tevez. Chelsea have spent fortunes on Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Torres, Ramires and others. Utd have not been able to spend as heavily, but RvP is top drawer. Vidic and Evra have featured in world XIs in the past 3 years. Nani, Valencia and Kagawa would find buyers among the top sides in Europe if available. Other clubs have outstanding foreign players who would similarly be coveted by top European sides, like Fellaini, Dembele, Lloris, Vertonghen, Suarez, Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa, Ba, Odemwingie, Kone, Begovic, Huth, Berbatov, Michu, Podolski, Cazorla, Sessegnon, Ruiz, Benteke, Lukaku to name just a few- not to mention some outstanding British players at these teams like Bale, Gerrard, Defoe, Walcott, Walker, Wilshere, Baines, Jagielka, Oxlade- Chamberlain, Allen, Williams etc etc. Even the journeymen pros these days are far better than they used to be- Lambert, Holt, Fletcher, Shawcross, Whelan, Hoolahan, Caldwell, Nolan.

Weaker, no way.

 

Well, everything written on this page covers it for me, DL, I don't care what you, Neville or anyone else says, there's 6 pages rubbishing the OP, if I were a mod I'd do you a favour and close it!

 

Champions of Europe lost and couldn't score against the worst team in the division at home...

 

The Poll suggests more people agree with me

*Sigh*

 

Surprised you use those two quotes DL - 15 to 13 is hardly a conclusive "agreement". ... and if the team bottom of the table can beat the current European Champions it could be argued that the league is immensley strong

 

The league is stronger now then what it was in the mid 2000s but weaker then it was in 2008 2009 that's when the league was at its strongest.

 

There's no option for it having remained the same though, or a "don't give a ****" vote so most people probably don't agree with him. I haven't voted because there wasn't one of those two options there that represent my feelings.

 

I agree - I would have voted - "much the same"

 

As the comments above allude to, its not fully representative of the boards feelings, hence just another meaningless, easily ripped stat.

 

The only conclusion you can draw from the poll is that it is about the same as the two sides are almost the same but as notso says it is not a black and white issue and this poll tries to make it so. Needed at least one more option.

 

I also never voted as its blatantly obvious there is very little change (either way) and the fans which say its weaker are just going by temporary form, from certain teams, or the fact man utds defence is out of sorts due to injury, man city aren't the same team due to Mancini screwing about and is it any wonder there are more goals being conceded with the new "rule" in football, I expect it to be made official, that a player "has the right to dive, fall over, trip himself up or just pretend he has been shot, if a player from the opposition makes any form of contact".

The game is being made harder each year for defenders to actually defend, unless you adopt the approach of stoke city and make defending THEIR sole priority.

Also in general (worldwide) we're seeing a real lack of quality defenders come through like before, and more so in this country.

 

*sigh*

Adolf Hitler
Heinrich Himmler
Joseph Goebbels
Hermann Goering
Rudolf Hess
Josef Mengele
Albert Speer
Karl Donitz

That should get Godwin's Law out of the way, can we move on before Stoke finish with more than fifty points?

 

Year on year the PL is stronger. More and better quality players; fitter, faster, stronger. How teams fare against each other in terms of results is pretty much irrelevant. Defences were supposedly stronger, but how would the stalwarts of the past like Bruce or Adams cope with the likes of RvP, Suarez, Bale, Mata, Aguero, Tevez etc? They wouldn't- they hadn't the pace or the skill.

 

Adams (in my view may be a complete and utter ******) but he was an outstanding defender, Bruce was good, but the Bruce & Pallister partnership was outstanding, yet back them defenders had more scape to actually defend, football was more of a contact sport.

If stoke put in a defensive master-class, they are ridiculed or called "dirty", or anti football", we have all sad it, but at times they are just playing like an old styled physical team that plays within the rules (aside from a few dodgy tackles!), but each year there seems to more focus on attacking players being "allowed" to play, what happened to attacking players showing some strength and manning up?

However defenders like Adams, King, Mcgrath and etc could defend in all eras as they knew how to read the game and it doesn't matter how quick a forward is, if the defender is in the right position they have the upper hand.

 

True,Bobby Moore was the master,he had no pace to speak of,but was alway's in the right placeto make a tackle,because he could read the game so well.The stand out one for me was against Pele in the 1970 world cup game,stopped him in full flight,and came away with the ball

 

This is why I don't rate Scott Parker but rated Makalele highly. If your in a position where you needed to be running 50 yards and making slide tackles every 2 minutes something isn't right. I thought Scott Parker cost you the FA Cup Semi Final. I've never thought he was good enough for such a high level of football. Makalele was the most intelligent midfielder of his type you will ever see. Him, Overmars, Bergkamp and Zola would make any PL all time XI of mine.

 

so what are we arguing about here lads?

 

We seem to be arguing vociferously that the Premier League is about as strong as it always is