The January Transfer Window

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Hello, Roo.

I can see your point, but virtually any team barring the two Mancs will lose some quality if their first choice players are missing. Chelsea without Cech are far weaker, for example.
Some of our most often selected players do seem to have suitable cover, though. Parker can take the pressure off Sandro and the return of Assou-Ekotto and Kaboul should allow Vertonghen some rest.
Other areas might require someone stepping up unexpectedly, but we do seem to have players with promise in a number of positions. Up front would be a big problem though, I think.

You may think that we should have beaten a lot of the sides that we've played recently and I'd agree with you, but that's often where we've slipped up in the past.
Failing to impose ourselves upon 'weaker' opposition or being caught out or complacent has seen us blow games that we were favourites to win on loads of occasions.
The only games recently that we've dropped points in were both decent performances and we can feel a little aggrieved to have drawn with Stoke and not done at least that at Goodison.

Levy's problem in this window is just how to manage the squad without upsetting the balance.
We do need to add some additional quality, but we also need to offload a few players, too.
 
Roo said:
I don't disagree with any of that mate, but I just don't see Levy going for it. If we're spending 20mill + (which we never have btw), Levy will be looking to get about 10m of that back, when that player is about 30. He's just a shrewd businessman and I do respect him for that. Unfortunately there's a fine line between being shrewd and tight. sometimes we shoot ourselves in the foot and need to just go for it, like you say.

ps.. 100k p/w for those "dead wood" players? i'd have thought it'd be about £200-250 for those, surely? isn't Bentley on about 50k p/w alone?



see this is where I disagree with you both. - the squad.

I don't think we have enough in the squad to remain confident of a top 4 finish. We're at that point in the season where niggling injuries occur and players are sidelined for 2,3,4 weeks at a time. Some might say that we've already had our fair share of injuries, but that's meant that other players have played a lot more games than normal, without a rest. Vertonghen, Bale, Defoe, Sandro and lennon have been overplayed IMO, and whilst I wouldn't necessarily say we should have rested them (as they've been outstanding), they are the prime examples of players who we could see face these injury problems, due to fatigue perhaps. This is where the "squad" element comes into it. I don't think the squad is good enough to deal with a couple of these players being out for a few weeks. We'vemanaged to get away with it against the likes of Reading where Bale served a 1 match ban, but with no disrespect to reading, they are at the bottom of the table and we were at home. what about a string of games which could include some teams at the top? we were only saying yesterday how without bale we lose our balance on the wings, which is vital to our game.
For me, the "Bench" doesn't have 1 game changer amongst it. Whilst those players could come in and do a job temporarily (1 game), or for 20 mins at the end of a game perhaps, if we had to make a change of any period of time, I think we'd have some serious problems. This is the business end of the season. - If those around us strengthen, it only adds even more of a threat to our position.
We've not bought the quality we've needed in the past and we've suffered come may as a result of this.
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I'm a huge fan of Levy don't get me wrong, and IF the money isn't there, then I'm fully behind him in not pursuing a Moutinho/ Willian etc deal and instead opt for the "develop a raw talent" approach. Though personally I think there is a fair bit to spend, just reckon he doesn't want to take the risk which isn't entirely a bad thing.

You're probably right, though come on, I've said countless times my maths isn't the greatest :(. Though if it is nearer to the £200k mark then it strengthens the point I was making about shipping out the dead wood to clear for quality.

I do think, as it stands, our squad is good enough to make the top four. You say that some have been overplayed, and while in a sense I do agree, you have to look at the likes of Messi, Ronaldo, Falcao etc who are playing nigh on 95% of games and usually being a match winner in what, 85% of them? I know them guys are freaks of nature in the game but in terms of stamina and fitness, I highly doubt they're on a different level to other players. I think it's all about the nurturing of players, the likes of Bale, Sandro, Lennon have been blazing all season, they've rarely (if ever) looked tired, perhaps AVB has a routine in which the players rest for the right periods while putting the right amount of work in? Just an assumption but where as under the Harry regime (blimey, I'm criticising Redknapp in favour of AVB!!! <laugh>) the players looked tired at many times in the second half of the season, if anything our lads seems to be getting fitter as each game passes. Lennon's back tracking has never been so good and Defoe is getting back quite a bit too, we've rarely seen this commitment from players to ensure that the dirty shouldn't just be left to the DM and defence.

As I said previously though, although I'm satisfied with the squad and I do believe it's good enough to challenge for the top 4, I don't want that be our aim. I don't want 4th being seen an "achievement", I'd rather that be an expectation and that we should be looking at 3rd and above providing the right quality is added to the already impressive team we have.
 
I think the argument that other have learned our style and have had time to adjust is a bit of a weak one if I am honest. Particularly with reference to Bale or Lennon. We have had them for a number of seasons and yes some times teams man mark them and it works, others it doesn't. We all know how Man Utd would play, you and I could probably pick a team to match that, but they would still play us off the park. If our players are good enough, it won't matter if people know how we play, we will still win and adapt in the game. I think that is the advantage having AVB over Arry will come. Arry couldnt change tactics during a game without confusing the team, I won't go on about tactically naive because I think thats unfair.

I think we are agreeing a way Roo. No point in splashing cash on loads of fillers we need recruits that will help move us on. If we can get them great. But lets not waste time and money on the likes of a Saha or Ryan Nelson
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
Hello, Roo.

I can see your point, but virtually any team barring the two Mancs will lose some quality if their first choice players are missing. Chelsea without Cech are far weaker, for example.
Some of our most often selected players do seem to have suitable cover, though. Parker can take the pressure off Sandro and the return of Assou-Ekotto and Kaboul should allow Vertonghen some rest.
Other areas might require someone stepping up unexpectedly, but we do seem to have players with promise in a number of positions. Up front would be a big problem though, I think.

You may think that we should have beaten a lot of the sides that we've played recently and I'd agree with you, but that's often where we've slipped up in the past.
Failing to impose ourselves upon 'weaker' opposition or being caught out or complacent has seen us blow games that we were favourites to win on loads of occasions.
The only games recently that we've dropped points in were both decent performances and we can feel a little aggrieved to have drawn with Stoke and not done at least that at Goodison.

Levy's problem in this window is just how to manage the squad without upsetting the balance.
We do need to add some additional quality, but we also need to offload a few players, too.
Click to expand...

I think you can put chelsea in that category too, PNP. They are strong throughout the bench, which is to be expected when there's millions of £ to blow on whoever. But that's what I'm getting at. - we only need a few additions and we'll have essentially achieved what the top 3 sides have (or there abouts) for a fraction of the money, and that should separate us from Arsenal and Everton in terms of overall strength. - Thus achieveing a top 4 finish. (well it should do!!) For me, now is the time to assess it and make those signings that will make that bit of difference. This way, some of the fringe players who aren't good enough (hudd and livermore for example IMO) move on, and we've got the quality in depth to deal with a prem campaign, The europa and the FA cup which will throw numerous fixtures at us, during a time when other unforeseen problems I have mentioned could well kick in.

Spurs or Sex? said:
I'm a huge fan of Levy don't get me wrong, and IF the money isn't there, then I'm fully behind him in not pursuing a Moutinho/ Willian etc deal and instead opt for the "develop a raw talent" approach. Though personally I think there is a fair bit to spend, just reckon he doesn't want to take the risk which isn't entirely a bad thing.

You're probably right, though come on, I've said countless times my maths isn't the greatest :(. Though if it is nearer to the £200k mark then it strengthens the point I was making about shipping out the dead wood to clear for quality.

I do think, as it stands, our squad is good enough to make the top four. You say that some have been overplayed, and while in a sense I do agree, you have to look at the likes of Messi, Ronaldo, Falcao etc who are playing nigh on 95% of games and usually being a match winner in what, 85% of them? I know them guys are freaks of nature in the game but in terms of stamina and fitness, I highly doubt they're on a different level to other players. I think it's all about the nurturing of players, the likes of Bale, Sandro, Lennon have been blazing all season, they've rarely (if ever) looked tired, perhaps AVB has a routine in which the players rest for the right periods while putting the right amount of work in? Just an assumption but where as under the Harry regime (blimey, I'm criticising Redknapp in favour of AVB!!! <laugh>) the players looked tired at many times in the second half of the season, if anything our lads seems to be getting fitter as each game passes. Lennon's back tracking has never been so good and Defoe is getting back quite a bit too, we've rarely seen this commitment from players to ensure that the dirty shouldn't just be left to the DM and defence.

As I said previously though, although I'm satisfied with the squad and I do believe it's good enough to challenge for the top 4, I don't want that be our aim. I don't want 4th being seen an "achievement", I'd rather that be an expectation and that we should be looking at 3rd and above providing the right quality is added to the already impressive team we have.
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sorry SOS, wasn't having a go about the deadwood, just highlighting my frustration at the fact the wage bill is excessive.
As for the "Messi" examples, you've got to remember that the RM's and Barca's have exceptional replacements in a league which is no where near as challenging as the premiership. if a player like that is out of action it hurts, but it's no where near as much of a punishment as it is for a side in the premier league. Messi is out... who comes in??? David Villa! haha they're ****ed, aren't they?! <laugh> Now i'm not saying we can ever have that sort of replacement, but there's 2 ends of the spectrum here. Theirs are superb, ours are reasonably poor, IMO. somewhere in the middle would be nice. <ok>

musiceyz said:
I think the argument that other have learned our style and have had time to adjust is a bit of a weak one if I am honest. Particularly with reference to Bale or Lennon. We have had them for a number of seasons and yes some times teams man mark them and it works, others it doesn't. We all know how Man Utd would play, you and I could probably pick a team to match that, but they would still play us off the park. If our players are good enough, it won't matter if people know how we play, we will still win and adapt in the game. I think that is the advantage having AVB over Arry will come. Arry couldnt change tactics during a game without confusing the team, I won't go on about tactically naive because I think thats unfair.

I think we are agreeing a way Roo. No point in splashing cash on loads of fillers we need recruits that will help move us on. If we can get them great. But lets not waste time and money on the likes of a Saha or Ryan Nelson
Click to expand...

You say it's a weak argument mate, but if they do get marked out of the game my point is: who do we bring on when it does happen? I know we have to expect it with Bale and Lennon as they are arguably 2 of the league's best wingers who other teams target, but there's been times in the past where we've looked clueless without them. Having some sort of effective alternative option is what can make the difference when things aren't going our way. This is where we've struggled IMO and we will continue to struggle if things stay as they are. For me, having something different as a plan b will win the games where a result needs grinding out. At the moment if I look past our first 11 or so, I don't feel confident in it, that's all. I would just be concerned about a dip in form if injuries were to occur. Getting a couple of players in this January of good quality could establish a significant different between us and those below us, which is why I hope we spend the cash and have a stab at it this month. We never take advantage and seize opportunity when it's presented to us IMO.
 
Roo said:
I think you can put chelsea in that category too, PNP. They are strong throughout the bench, which is to be expected when there's millions of £ to blow on whoever. But that's what I'm getting at. - we only need a few additions and we'll have essentially achieved what the top 3 sides have (or there abouts) for a fraction of the money, and that should separate us from Arsenal and Everton in terms of overall strength. - Thus achieveing a top 4 finish. (well it should do!!) For me, now is the time to assess it and make those signings that will make that bit of difference. This way, some of the fringe players who aren't good enough (hudd and livermore for example IMO) move on, and we've got the quality in depth to deal with a prem campaign, The europa and the FA cup which will throw numerous fixtures at us, during a time when other unforeseen problems I have mentioned could well kick in.



sorry SOS, wasn't having a go about the deadwood, just highlighting my frustration at the fact the wage bill is excessive.
As for the "Messi" examples, you've got to remember that the RM's and Barca's have exceptional replacements in a league which is no where near as challenging as the premiership. if a player like that is out of action it hurts, but it's no where near as much of a punishment as it is for a side in the premier league. Messi is out... who comes in??? David Villa! haha they're ****ed, aren't they?! <laugh> Now i'm not saying we can ever have that sort of replacement, but there's 2 ends of the spectrum here. Theirs are superb, ours are reasonably poor, IMO. somewhere in the middle would be nice. <ok>



You say it's a weak argument mate, but if they do get marked out of the game my point is: who do we bring on when it does happen? I know we have to expect it with Bale and Lennon as they are arguably 2 of the league's best wingers who other teams target, but there's been times in the past where we've looked clueless without them. Having some sort of effective alternative option is what can make the difference when things aren't going our way. This is where we've struggled IMO and we will continue to struggle if things stay as they are. For me, having something different as a plan b will win the games where a result needs grinding out. At the moment if I look past our first 11 or so, I don't feel confident in it, that's all. I would just be concerned about a dip in form if injuries were to occur. Getting a couple of players in this January of good quality could establish a significant different between us and those below us, which is why I hope we spend the cash and have a stab at it this month. We never take advantage and seize opportunity when it's presented to us IMO.
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I still think we are agreeing with each other though. What you said is basically the same as me
 
I thought it would be interesting to see if we could all pick out who we would buy in the transfer window. Maybe say we have £50m to spend (which I know AVB won't) and be realistic, don't say you can get Messi for that and we would pay his wages and he would want to join.

OK who is first?
 
i would buy erikson and maybe a nice car, house, holiday and put enough away so i didn't have to work again. Winning.
 
Original Spurcat said:
I mentioned our registered interest the other day but nobody believed me then.
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Hi Spurcat, HNY. <ok>

I've seen a few reports on this now. it's been said that they want 16 mill and aren't prepared to accept loan offers. Do you know any more? David Villa would be a hell of a signing, but isn't he on about 7mill euro's p/a? (about £110p/w roughly) Master Stroke from Levy if it happens. Again, only a temporary (and costly) solution though, where we'll be looking to bed in another striker come the summer.
 
Leighton Baines (Everton)

Upson (Stoke)

Odemwingie (WBA)

Lukaku (Chelsea)
 
There's two "dream" players I'd have but with £50m I couldn't get both.

Falcao - £45m+

OR

Ozil - £30m.

Realisticly:

Eriksen - £15m-£20m
Llorente - £7m (due to last 6 months of contract)
Zaha - £10m (competition/ back up for Bale and Lennon)
 
or like SoS i would spunk the whole lot on Falcao if i thought we had a snowball's chance in hell of getting him.
 
Spurm said:
i would buy erikson and maybe a nice car, house, holiday and put enough away so i didn't have to work again. Winning.
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you could only get away with that if the money was put away in an account with the name of your dog as the account holder.

general feeling seems to be eriksen from ajax.

Does nobody think Kaka? probably get him for 10-15 and he is creative. link well with sandro?

I will give my view once I had trawled FM2012 a bit morw
 
I think we have to be a lot more realistic about the kind of players we can sign, and go for strengthening the whole of the squad, rather than one part of it. Yes, a marque player would be great news, but it hasn''t happened since VDV and for a long time before him, so it's unlikely to happen, now.

The players I have suggested, whilst not the kind of names that would have the average Yid reaching for the Kleenex, nevertheless are good players, in teams that, in their respective own ways, are performing at their top of their game, and they all have enough about them to be able to compete for places in our first XI. Also, they are all realistic targets.
 
HIAG not sure I would want any of them with the exception of Baines though. Odemwinge is just one of those good players that looks very good in an average team. Chelsea wouldnt let us have Lukaku anyway. Upson just doesnt cut it for me, def not better than the centre backs we already have.

Baines is a very good shout though
 
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