Having just watched MOTD, I agree with you swarbs by the letter of the law he is offside as he clearly affects the decision Evans makes from an offside position. If Cisse isn't there I don't think Evans would have put it in his own net, therefore Cisse is affecting play. It always cracks me up watching Fergie at 71 still giving the referees a good ear bashing
This. Loved Lineker on MOTD going "Surely that's not being a good role model?" The guy is 71 - how many 71 year olds do you know who give a flying **** about being role models?!? SAF has turned being a grumpy old man into an art form
Fergie and Van Persie really should be banned a few games. They way Fergie was acting since Newcastle's 2nd was a disgrace, two games in a row he has been disgraceful to officials. Van Persie yet again hitting someone in the face.
Fergie could still get punished for his behavior, it certainly wont be the first time and probably wont be the last, but RVP for that hand off... really? You see that sort of thing in pretty much every single game and most of them go unpunished.
I may be wrong but I dont think he did block the keeper's view. I'm pretty sure the only contentious issue is whether he is intefering with Evans' decision making - i.e was Cisse being there the reason Evans rushed his attempted clearance and scored the own goal. I would tend to agree with you that his presence did cause Evans' rushed clearance. However I can understand the other interpretation - it could be argued that Evans was reacting to what he thought was a cross/shot across the face of his goal and would have attempted that block, Cisse or no Cisse. (it was a crowded goalmouth remember). As a final note, I think all this interpretation of offside has been taken a step too far. BY all logic he should be offside, but I can see why the rules as they are currently written put the ref in a very difficult position, and personally I would have understood whichever way he called it.
Rationally I think Cisse 'must' have been offside. But I can see how the law could be interpreted in such a way (Cisse not actually interfering with the direct shot) to justify the goal. Trying to be magnanimous after we've won. Not sure that this would have been my reaction if we didn't.
Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebTarZFZEcg By any logic, anybody with half a brain cell can see that the only reason the defender even attempted to play this ball was because the attacker was in his position, which happened to be a few yards offside. However, because the attacker didn't 'actively intefere with the ball or opponent' during the first phase, the goal was allowed to stand. Was this poor officiating or a poor law that was correctly upheld? So many things for the linesman and ref to think about in such a short amount of time. They should give any benefit of the doubt to the defensive team. If there is an 'offside' player stood on the touchline whilst a ball is played into the centre then obviously it shouldnt be offside. But if the 'offside' player looks like they are in any way involved with the move, or could be involved with the move, the flag should go up and play stopped. Far less interpratation and far less confusion. (i am aware there are probably gaping flaws in this fairly sweeping statement I have just made, I just find the current offside rule slightly ridiculous)
Evans would have attempted that block no matter what, but I would argue he would have made it successfully, i.e. kicked the ball out for a free kick / corner, without Cisse his back The rules say there are three ways you can be offside: 1. Interfering with play by touching the ball 2. Interfering with a player by obstructing their movement or vision, or distracting / deceiving them in a way that prevents them playing the ball 3. Gaining an advantage by playing a ball that rebounds to him So Cisse was offside according to the second one. Tho it is a grey area - the second criteria is designed to stop players blocking the goalkeeper's line of sight, or standing behind the last man and blocking them off to allow a player to run through on goal from an offside position. It is debatable whether Cisse prevented Evans playing the ball - he still made contact with the ball, but it was more a case of the ball bouncing off Evans' foot as he was unable to deliberately play it as he was having a bit of push and shove with Cisse. As you say, it's just a good job we won so we don't have to be like the scousers and whinge about how we were robbed whilst debating "what might have been" till the cows come home...
I'd say the law as it stands was correctly upheld. The guidance as it stands states that an attacker in an offside position is not interfering with the player if he does not prevent them from playing the ball, or make a movement that distracts them. In the video I would argue the striker wasn't distracting the defender because, whilst the striker's presence may have forced the defender to try and play the ball (the defender didn't look so he may not have known the striker was there and just went for the ball out of instinct), nothing the striker did caused the defender to miskick as badly as he did. In contrast, Cisse was right behind Evans and thus his movement made it harder for Evans to play the ball. Diagrams on pages 109 and 110 in the laws actually specifically indicate that the distance between attacker and defender is one of the key factors in deciding whether a player is interfering or not. http://www.thefa.com/~/media/my-football-resources/referee/laws-of-the-game-2012-13.ashx So I'd say the law was upheld, but whether the law is sensible or not is a whole other can of worms...
Saffa is cracking up but all managers find the Christmas period stressful. He needs to chill like Rafa
I can't imagine Rafa's very chilled, what with all that overtime at the restraunt over the Xmas period
It is amazing how one or two wins does to the self esteeem of some fans. One minute the fat waiter was pilloried and had to go, the next he was "chilled". With "fans" like that, no wonder the russian can ride roughshod over everyone and treat these fans with contempt they deserve ...
I have always understood the general underlying principal of the offside rule to be 'is the player stood in an offside position gaining him or his team an advantage by being in that position?' In the case of the Arsenal goal, the fact that you have provided (by reference to the rules) a valid argument for that not being offside by the rules as they stand speaks volume about the flaws of the offside rule as it stands. In both cases (Saha for Everton and Cisse for Newcastle) the attacking team clearly gained an advantage by their players being stood in an offside position, as the presence of both players in their offside positions directly influenced the defensive mistakes which followed. In both incidents the defenders reacted to the presence of players (in offside positions) and made mistakes to goals. These probably arent altogether isolated incidents, although in the majority of these circumstances the defenders wouldnt have made the mistake so the debate wouldnt even have begun. However in both of these incidents its very possible to make an argument, by reference to the rule book, to say the referee's decision was the correct one. This is wrong. The whole world and his cat knows that Saha and Cisse were offside, except the rule book and the poor sods who are paid to apply it. The offside rule needs stripping down and starting again. Back to basics. Unless you are nowhere near the ball, if you are in and around the action area at all, and in an offside position, flag goes up. No messing about!
I'm not so sure whether it was the correct decision.. If cisse wasn't in an offside position Evans wouldn't have been there to connect with the ball. Therefore he was interfering with play.
I like many others think he was in a position that caused the player to react to his presence. Therefore he was interfering with play. You still won and deservedly so and are as said previously looking good for number 20. Thoroughly enjoyed the game and how Fergie has made life more bearable by letting teams have a start. Not that it seems to have changed anything results wise.
Everyone needs to be like the fat waiter? You've changed your tune! Mind you, we can expect only real football fans to stick to their principles Realise what the russian is doing to your club?: sacking RDM, appointing the fat waiter hated by the fans, getting rid of Lampard Terry and Cole even though you fans do not like it. That lucky win in the CL now seems so far away doesn't it?
If a centre forward stood in the middle of a penalty area during an attack isn't interfering with play, what the **** is he doing there?
