If you've got a picture of the away stand then I'd be interested to see it because it didn't look that way from my seat in the Lower Rous. Also, surely the new turnstiles with the iron bars all the way up stop people from jumping them or there being enough space to fit two in in one turn. There were comfortably enough seats in the Rous and Rookery to accommodate the Watford fans in the Watford part of the Vicarage Road end if someone had had a bit of foresight. The club has the right to move season ticket holders if it wishes to change the away end as is the case in the lower leagues when the 'home' end may be dependent on the number of away fans likely to turn up.
I was quite suprised when I spotted the size of the crowd as 15,500. From the pictures I have seen it didn't look as if there was seating for another 2,000. Do you have any evidence of this?
I am not sure I believe "accounting fiddles" - these allegations have been made over many years at many clubs and I am sure the Revenue would have picked up on it if it really was the case
OK do you think any laswyers are looking????? Early 90's under Jack Petchey I saw Jack in the cash office at half time one afternoon when I did a "late gate" on the turnstiles. With cash turnstiles, it was very easy to "lose track" of a couple of turnstiles. Nowadays money is laundered through football clubs, you either admit to it or just put your head in the sand! I think I may have a picture of the "over capacity" NE corner, where do you want it posted?
I need do neither. If someone were to provide evidence that money is laundered through football clubs I would look to see if that evidence convinced me - however having worked in Finance for more years than I care to mention I know that it is not as easy as some may imagine to launder money.
Depends on the circumstances. A QPR fan in the Watford end shouldn't be recognised as a QPR fan because he shouldn't be cheering QPR in the Watford end. If any were recognised...you'd assume they've overstepped the mark. If you're desperate to see the game then it's not a problem to sit in the Watford end.....it's when you take it further than that that the problems arise.
Leo, as an accountant believe me football is the #1 business to launder money - why do you think so many "big business" people get into the sport in this country? I don't want to be drawn but let's just say "offshore" and "tax dodging". LA has not lost any of his fortune whilst owning Watford.
Counting the number of tickets sold and/or used and giving that as the attendance is not "an accounting fiddle".
Elixir - Surely laundering money i.e. washing dirty money is different to offshore havens and tax dodging? I would have thought these days, football is a not a business that it is easy to hide the cash i.e. no cash turnstiles, merchandising and food/drink all on EPOS - unless you can hide the tills?
Guys, very simply there are ways of "cooking the books". I agree with all the modern EPOS systems the club has got to be able to account for front end revenue very easily. It is the back end, offshore invoicing for "services" which is the more shady side. Ashcroft bought into Watford as an "investment" because he was sold "a vision". He will have made good money from backhanders in letting out contracts in the ã750m West Watford Relief Project. I believe he has also been making money over the last 3 "crisis years" at the club. I just don't buy the innocent story that he won't have made any money out of Watford. I also believe QPR are guilty big time. Whether they get an "appropriate" punishment or not, only time will tell.
The fans have cried out a number of times, "Where has all the money gone?" Last heard in a really big way down on the south coast. The ownership was dubious to the point where one owner seemingly didn't even exist as a person. Some of the many owners had chequered histories to say the least and yet seem to get through the net of checking to see if they are fit to own a football club. I am quite prepared to believe that football clubs today do act as a magnet for those who wish to use them as vehicles for moving money around the world. There is an investigation going on down south, but I suspect it is far too involved for there to be a clear vision of where all of the money went.
I bow to your knowledge Elixir if you have seen it happening - but I too was an accountant and the rules and regulations we had to go through with anything that could smack of money laundering were immense - Ok we were in the hotel industry but I would imagine that football would be closely monitored too - but it seems I may be wrong. Cheers
hhhmmm! was just wondering if the world would be a better place if there were no such thing as accountants, they have certainly killed aviation! Seems like the moneymen are killing Football ! but hey we have known that for years
Beg to differ Norway - but as a Finance Director I would, wouldn't I? I spent an awful lot of my time showing so called "operators" how to run their businesses so that instead of losing money they could make some. One of the instances in my early days I had an operator who watned to reduce the price we sold our petrol at by 1p - claiming he could sell xxx thousand extra gallons if we did (we were a cut price petrol retailer) I pointed out we only made 0.1 penny per gallon sold so that if he had his way we would be losing money on every gallon sold so would be better off selling none.
@MadMoose, Hornette and any others who have suggested moving the home fans from the VR end i will put this politely. NAFF OFF!!!!! I for one would not give up my ticket so that some away fan could watch their team, how do we know its not their first game? Why should a loyal fan like myself loose out to a first timer?? Also where would you move the 100s of us too? In case you did not know there is not room for them!!! It has also bee pointed out that this would be near impossible to police baring in mind the poor actions against the QPR fans, and they were minimal!!!
Seriously? -Who cares if it is a first timer or not? The simple fact is that we need the money...so let's take it! -You don't lose out. So what if there are 100s of you? I would guess that there is room for quite a few thousand in the Rookery/Rous..... No Room? ....our attendances are becoming lower and lower in recent times....and even without the East Stand our capacity is high enough to accommodate the small amount of home fans in the Vicarage Road end. - QPR probably caused the most trouble this season....even Millwall weren't that bad (and most of the trouble with Millwall would actually have been stopped had they had their own stand....). The problem I thought was that the security was poor......rather than the fans themselves. Address the issues.....don't try and solve a problem by fixing something else! Besides...if we'd given QPR the whole stand that would be way more than enough money to cover the cost of extra policing/security anyway.
