Well we all see things differently and clearly not everyone is as knowledgable as yourself. I think given this club's recent history (post Harold Needler) onlookers or 'twats who earn tuppence per year' could be forgiven for being a little more cautious in judging Assem Allam's motives.
Motives! It's perfectly good business to give to the community. It is a perfectly good business plan to build a sports village. I would ask this...Would the twats who earn tuppence a year like to have a club that was modeled on some of the most successful clubs in the world?
Surely an intelligent observer such as yourself will have realised that we are all well aware of the pros and cons of the Allam v Brady argument and don't need reminding for the umpteenth time of what they are. No need to keep berating 'the twats who earn tuppence a year' about things they already know.
I think the reason we disagree comes down to you believing that football is a viable business on its own, which I definitely do not think is the case. There are some clubs which break even or make a profit, and there are some clubs whic are successful but very few which do both in English football. In order to compete we would need to strengthen the team, year on year to constantly improve and stay ahead of the competition. Where does this money come from? The football club's income is barely enough to break even at the moment. When you start throwing the kind of transfer fees in there that we would need to be paying we won't stand a chance. Yes there is money simply for being in the PL but not as much as it costs teams like us to stay there. Remember we went up once and that didn't finance itself did it? We had massive cash flow problems to the point that Turner and Myhill had to be sold in order to pay the wages for the months in which they were sold (12 months apart of course). PL TV money is a lot, but not to a football club who needs to spend big every year. Clubs like Man U and Liverpool can make their money marketing abroad, but we don't have that option and won't do for the forseeable future, so we need to look at other ways of bringing money in.
Sat laughing at Michael McIntyre and enjoying Whytes and Mackays on ice; your post deserves more than I can glue together, so I will retire till the morn'! Bloody good response though! That is a big question we have asked and got nothing back for. The council chicken-heartedly intend the public to be the deciders, but give us no knowledge! Elected fools or foolish electorate - another Whytes . . . Now this should be a broader question on another thread! I know I do - my wife still looks 19!
Just caught up on some of the more recent posts that, I did not read too closely. here's my 'tuppence worth'; football is a sport, a way to do battle and exercise and a way to associate. It is not a reason to fall out and be a twat. There seems to have been a bit of Vino influenced ****e tonight - NORMAL SERVICE WILL BE RESUMED TOMORROW!
You always want debate turned into personal bickering dont you. You dont want me to post my views, but you never debate the issue. Show me an example where I berate others, its a forum, where does it say we have to agree? I support our club, I support the owners and I want what I consider to be the best future from the club. You are simply a WUM
Me, It was said to me yesterday afternoon, during an arguement with a wealthy landowner. He lost and came back with that, I suppose it stuck.
Don't you think the likes of Leo Schulz and Pat Doyle fought tooth and nail to bring investment to this city?.. the likes of Leeds were fortunate to be able to reinvent themselves as a city from the demise of the textile trade to the financial centre of the North due to its geographical position. Our relative isolation has always been our achilees heel. Not saying the likes of Geraghty and to a lesser Brady aren't dinsosaurs, they are, but not convinced the Lib Dems, having been given the opportunity to manage the Council were ever up to it (**** me they even voted against the Superstadium project but wer happy at to be commerated at the opening - Simone Butterworth anyone?) and the likes of Parnaby at ERYC is hardly a go getter.
BoothferryToWembley - In closure . . . Perhaps it is time for an action group from the supporters of Hull City and the residents of Hull – what is needed is a full and proper response as to why there is this impasse with the Allam’s. If they are offering a derisory sum for the stadium and land then let us all have the facts – after all, it would appear we will be asked to decide on any sale, so give us the truth now. The Walton Street plot is currently being operated in the style of Del-Boy and Rodney; regenerate it and make it something to be proud of. Just about everything is for sale – it’s just the price that eludes folk, but they will get there, eventually. Don’t deride our rugby teams; they are a big part of the city’s character and deserve respect. ‘For a piece of flat land it brings in an enormous amount of money as it is. Do you think it is cheap to get a burger pitch for Hull fair? do you reckon it's cheap to bring a ride to Hull fair? Clue, it isn't. It costs a fxxkin fortune and the council do very well out of it.’ Now I am going to be kind and reckon that you earn ‘tuppence a week’ (LOL@Mel), because if you consider the returns from Hull Fair and Tigers parking to be an enormous amount of money then you need an insight into what real commercial returns should be on a plot such as that. ‘Compare that to absolute fxxk all they get out of the KC stadium. In fact until recently they were paying the SMC to rent space in a building they own. You couldn't make this stuff up and you don't have to, the ****wittery of Hull City Council knows no bounds.’ This is the historical stuff I have mentioned; good at business aren’t they! I agree that attendances are just one factor in our financial constraints, but I disagree with your overall view of the club – fans relationship. Two years into their ownership and still sorting the debacle of previous ownerships, these guys need more time before they are hung out to dry. That, of course, is just my opinion. I am sorry, but I find this both amusing and sad: ‘The stadium would not be defunct if Hull City left as the egg chasers would be in situ. Darlington didn't have a 600k a year tennant. The SMC may also be able to get another tennant in to ground share the KC. An egg chasing team of the union variety for instance. They could get one that play in blue white and yellow to match the ground maybe. I doubt Hull Kingston Rovers would be given the option, I also doubt they would want the option as things stand. But whose to say what a new owner of HKR might think at some time in the future, that may depend on who a knew owner of HKR was, ten a penny egg chasing teams, just saying like.’ It is struggling with the revenue from a business the size of the Tigers and you are suggesting Rovers or a RFU team could fill the breach? For Rovers to move west of the river there would need to be a revolution within Hull – just like the Tigers moving from the KC, it just won’t happen – only if they became one with Hull FC.
ISTPLT I think the reason we disagree comes down to you believing that football is a viable business on its own, which I definitely do not think is the case. It is not clear if you mean football in general or Hull City. I do believe football in general with the enormous amounts of money involved is a viable industry. That said it amazes me how many football clubs run at a loss and is considered normal. There are some clubs which break even or make a profit, and there are some clubs whic are successful but very few which do both in English football. Which to me is the crux of the problem. In order to compete we would need to strengthen the team, year on year to constantly improve and stay ahead of the competition. Where does this money come from? This money should come from the clubs income. The football club's income is barely enough to break even at the moment. This is obviously Hull City related and it is true that the club are operating at a loss at the moment. We have a wage bill that could not be sustained going forward and the owner was of aware of this when he purchased the club. There is a massive amount of contracts coming to an end at the end of the season and all of the expensive ones come to an end. I am expecting a total new start in regard to pay policy at the club and it is much needed. There will also be a high turnover of players. This may work well, it may not. One thing it won't do is take us down the road towards bankruptcy and liquidation. When you start throwing the kind of transfer fees in there that we would need to be paying we won't stand a chance. Yes there is money simply for being in the PL but not as much as it costs teams like us to stay there. It is not compulsory to go down that route although it is often favoured by fans such as yourself who seem quite keen to spend other peoples money for them. I much prefer the way Blackpool did it. Yes there is money simply for being in the PL but not as much as it costs teams like us to stay there. Remember we went up once and that didn't finance itself did it? It didn't because it was criminally mis-managed. It most certainly could of done if managed correctly. We had massive cash flow problems to the point that Turner and Myhill had to be sold in order to pay the wages for the months in which they were sold (12 months apart of course). See reply above, part of the same problem. PL TV money is a lot, but not to a football club who needs to spend big every year. Clubs like Man U and Liverpool can make their money marketing abroad, but we don't have that option and won't do for the forseeable future, so we need to look at other ways of bringing money in. The PL TV money is a lot more than it was last time, you suggest we need to spend big, I would suggest the club should live within its means. So, in short we do see this very differently, no doubt we both want what we see as best for our football club but have contrasting visions of what this should be. I am totally against a debt incurring model. I am not against an owner who decides to chuck money of his own at it and does it willingly and can afford to do so. Our owner says he can't and won't do this, so that's the sugar daddy route closed off. I can't say I blame him, I'm not sure his ownership of Hull City has panned out the way he expected it to.
The Allams are receptive to a supporters groups and at one time this was very much on my agenda. But I stopped developing the idea when the amount of money that was needed went too high. For a supporters action group to work it would need to be able to raise a reasonable amount of funds just to get the legalities sorted. The same problem comes up, time and time again. When I spoke to Beggies Traynor, the first and last question was, who owns the stadium, when I said the council they said forget it. When I spoke to an investor with suffcient funds to back a supporters group, the same question was asked. Several bankers, the exact same thing. Portsmouths fans buy out is supported by a property developer and that says it all. If the council gave the KC to a supporters group and that group could raise the funds to extend the East stand, it would still need to build at least a hotel on the site as well as develop Walton Street in partnership with the Allams, Just simply to keep the revenue flow going.
B2W, so what is so wrong with having a club that has invested in commercial properties to pay for it PL survival. As you say football is an industry. Many companies have diverse income streams. Derby awaits and the traffic is starting to build up so I'm off.
I am not certain that any revenue made from non-football developments would fall into the Tiger's piggybank!
Well played mr Fez another top post and more food for thought. BTW it is Boothfery2wembley, boothferry to wembley is another poster, no matter. Perhaps it is time for an action group from the supporters of Hull City and the residents of Hull – what is needed is a full and proper response as to why there is this impasse with the Allam’s. If they are offering a derisory sum for the stadium and land then let us all have the facts – after all, it would appear we will be asked to decide on any sale, so give us the truth now. Facts and truth may well be needed but are we likely to get such a thing? Most unlikely imo, most of the posturing and toy slinging has been done via the local media. The Walton Street plot is currently being operated in the style of Del-Boy and Rodney. Is it? not sure about that, or in fact what you mean. Is it a bad thing? If it is you may care to explain why. To those on here, and for the benefit of the council. regenerate it and make it something to be proud of. Just about everything is for sale – it’s just the price that eludes folk, but they will get there, eventually. You are right about just about everything being for sale. There are empty factories, industrial units, land, shops and houses empty and for sale all over our fair city. The difference is this one brings in some revenue, let's be kind and call it a bit of spare change. It is worth pointing out that the people who use this facility are the ones who will get to vote on it if it ever gets that far. Don’t deride our rugby teams; they are a big part of the city’s character and deserve respect. Maybe you should consider getting elected to the council, you would fit in nicely. Now I am going to be kind and reckon that you earn ‘tuppence a week’ (LOL@Mel), because if you consider the returns from Hull Fair and Tigers parking to be an enormous amount of money then you need an insight into what real commercial returns should be on a plot such as that. I feel i should repay the compliment, I can see that you are a tanner a week man, It would be pointless you explaining to me what real commercial returns are when my full weeks earnings are all spent on feeding the birds. No doubt you are salaried sort of guy which would make you 2 bob. You really should think about the councillor thing. This is the historical stuff I have mentioned; good at business aren’t they! As previously stated, water under the bridge. Simple answer - No,they are not. I agree that attendances are just one factor in our financial constraints, but I disagree with your overall view of the club – fans relationship. Two years into their ownership and still sorting the debacle of previous ownerships, these guys need more time before they are hung out to dry. That, of course, is just my opinion. We may have to agree to diagree here, I have no doubt you are not the only one who thinks the club is doing a magnificent job in respect of fan relationship and I may be the only one who thinks that the marketing has been dire, the PR rubbish and the fan relationship virtually nil. I will ask you this though, if everything is so rosey in the garden, why would we need the fans action group you suggested earlier in the post? I am sorry, but I find this both amusing and sad: ‘The stadium would not be defunct if Hull City left as the egg chasers would be in situ. Darlington didn't have a 600k a year tennant. The SMC may also be able to get another tennant in to ground share the KC. An egg chasing team of the union variety for instance. They could get one that play in blue white and yellow to match the ground maybe. I doubt Hull Kingston Rovers would be given the option, I also doubt they would want the option as things stand. But whose to say what a new owner of HKR might think at some time in the future, that may depend on who a knew owner of HKR was, ten a penny egg chasing teams, just saying like. It is struggling with the revenue from a business the size of the Tigers and you are suggesting Rovers or a RFU team could fill the breach? For Rovers to move west of the river there would need to be a revolution within Hull – just like the Tigers moving from the KC, it just won’t happen – only if they became one with Hull FC. You have no need to be sorry over this but I am now sorry too, sorry that this made you sad, but happy that it also amused you. Egg chasing teams are not "ten a penny" in the real world however they are poor relations when compared to football clubs. The stadium management company is not struggling at all as it happens and is a total seperate entity from the football club. The function of the stadium management company is, funnily enough, to manage the stadium. If Hull City were to leave the KC there would be no obligation for Mr Allam to give up or sell the SMC. He may choose to look for a second tennant, he may not. He could not boot eff cee out on a whim but he most certainly could place a second sporting team there should he wish. He could buy one himself cheap enough if he wanted, fxxk me, he could pick his own colour, How about a nice red and white one. Are there any red and white coloured ones out there in financial trouble looking for a benefactor? It could be quite beneficial to have two sets of tubby lards filling their faces with pies and beer, two sets of rent, more full houses etc. It would take a strong owner to buy a club and tell the fan base I couldn't care less what you think, this is my club and I'll move it where I damn well like regardless of what any of you revenue streams think. As i pointed out before, we are where we are. Just be aware of where we are. I take on board your comment - Just like the tigers moving from the KC-it just won't happen. With all due respect, with enough money and the will to do it, it could happen. Same for the Salford egg chasers. Or any other skint egg chasing club.
