Demba Ba, the main reason we're not playing as a team?

No they don't. "Too selfish" is your opinion, and in line with the entirety of you argument, is just a conjectured viewpoint of the stats you've presented, with no objective analysis whatsoever.

Thanks for calling me uninformed though, and calling the manager (the manager would drop him if it wasn't right for the team), backroom staff (who support the manager in his choices) and anyone who disagrees with you (by pointing to your own stats as pretty worthless) uninformed as well ...

 

Aye, this

 

What on earth makes you think this ?

"Ba is a greedy striker" is an arguable position, "Ba has caused our team spirit to fragment" has no evidence at all

 

Clearly the article is sprilling off course. The article is about the mentality of the team. Something of which Ba is a main problem. The stats backed up the fact that Ba is too selfish and as a whole the team is suffering. There's no doubting that other areas that need lookign at but focusing in on this area alone Ba is a problem. Yes, we're improving of late but losing Ba in January can only be seen as a good thing for the team ethic.

You can say all you want about Ba being our only goal getter but that was the same of Nolan argument at the beginning of last season and then look what happened.

 

To be fair, I never actually said that now did I. You've attached that comment to yourself with the quoted post.

 

Sorry, but I don't think your basic stats prove this in the slightest, you seem to be confusing "fact" with "opinion", an opinion which the majority of people replying on here have disagreed with.

 

Rather taking things all too literal. Clearly the stats are not factually evident but they are evident to my argument and nevertheless still highlight the selfishness of Ba.

And also, you don't need stats to see that we play better when everyone plays as a team. Something that Ba, for a fact, isn't really doing much of!

 

Also, looking back through the artcle there's 3 for, 4 against and 2 that didn't really commit to a side but highlighted other areas they thought we were poor.

Hardly a majority

 

No you didn't say it, unless you read aloud your own comments. You did type it though, and it seemed an obvious reference to my subjective analysis.

Dementia's a bitch


But back to the point, I'm sure Pardew, with all the technology available to modern coaches and all the stats teeming out of their arses, is in much need of the couple you've produced as a matter of urgency... Quick, e-mail him before he plays that tosspot goal-scorer again

I think to provide any basis to an argument playing Ba is affecting the team, you have to ignore all subjective observations which say otherwise (the fact all the players celebrate his goals together for a start), and only take into account rumour (how do you know he's been offered a contract worth x amount?? How do you know he's been snubbing us for x reason?) and selective stats which don't even give a miniscule percentage of the full picture. I think it's ironic you can base your thread on such and then call other people uninformed

 

Also, this article seems to have gone down well on the ToonForum, seems people over there understand the article viewpoint rather than nit picking at stats etc.

http://toonforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3783

So it seems I have more for's than against at present!!

 

Also, as already pointed out but just for clarification, "too selfish" isn't a fact, and can't be backed up by the stats you've presented. There's "being selfish", which you can take as not laying on enough chances for others (let's forget about the possibilities of other players not working hard enough to get up to him, other players not being in a position for him to create a chance etc), but it's only an opinion unless you have consistent statistical standards. I mean, how many chances must a player make before he is considered unselfish?? You must have a number? Considering the effectiveness of his "selfishness" in scoring goals, how then can he be "too selfish"? Scoring too many goals and not letting others score? Is that statistically better? No. He's either successfully selfish, as the stats could show, or he's not selfish at all having laid on 10 chances for others

 

JPF. Rather than picking little pieces of the OP, understand the overall subject matter and tell me that Ba is not selfish and if he was not this selfish we could have scored more goals and played better as a team.

People point to defensive issues, which can not be argued against but goals do change games and holding onto the ball longer and higher up the pitch means the defence have less to do. If Ba takes speculative shots, the majority of the time this will gift the ball back to the opposition.

You only have to look at us last season and Man City on Saturday, holding and working the ball creates chances and Ba the same as Nolan isn't the be all and end all of the ability of our attacking play. If Ba wasn't there our style of play would have been more team orientated and more beneficial.

 

Example please? I seem to recall the two halves of the Everton game, which showed exactly the opposite.

 

evidence please ?

 

You're entire concept is based on these stats and subjective pondering... If we've rejected your stats (as proof of your opinion) on legitimate ground, you ain't got much left.

The comments on your article on toonforum have only had people agreeing for the same reasons, without a single shred of analysis from the posters. What use is it to you that nobody commented further on your stats?

Basically, you need to make your argument a lot more robust with better, more informative stats, before some of us are so easily convinced of what is just another viewpoint, rather than a definitive or meaningful statement. A statement is all well and good, and so is any view on here, but when it's being painted as fact it's a tad silly.

 

Dear me, I actually give up. Why do I need to any more evidence than I have?!?

Open your eyes and see Ba taking shots from everywhere and not passing when players are in better positions.

 

Ba is not selfish. He is our main goal scorer and concentrates on socring goals. thsi means that if he is in a position where he could either shoot or pass, he will very oftern shoot. This is not selfishness. I see no reason to think that we owuld have scored more goals if Ba had passed more often and shot less

 

The problem I've had on here is people are so caught up in a few stats I used to back up a point that Ba is selfish. People such as yourself are very literal and won't allow for figure of speech in text format. Now the article has spiralled so far from the OP that it's pointless continuing bcause we'll never get back on track.

 

... show me his conversion rate compared to other top strikers in the prem, if it's particularly low (i.e. he's taking too many shots to score a goal) then you might have a bit of a point, but I don't think the stats will show this.

I just can't see how any team would be better without their top scorer, when their goals have been so vital to the few points we've managed to get.

 

Really, you seem to be implying that rather than shooting to score each of his 11 goals he should have passed instead. Come on, really?!?!

My point is that Ba is shooting and not passing when he has better options, that is selfish!!