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The Height Of Bitterness

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by Page_Moss_Kopite, Dec 16, 2012.

  1. The artist JerryChristmas

    The artist JerryChristmas "Massive old member"

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    I'm no expert on copyright mate but I thought we had exclusive rights over all Liver Bird symbols of the same or "similar" design. Otherwise we'd just copyright our badge surely.
     
    #21
  2. shogs

    shogs Well-Known Member

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    Hi Alfie
     
    #22
  3. Tobes

    Tobes Warden Forum Moderator

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    You lot use the symbol of he city ie the Liver bird on your badge. You should never have the exclusive rights to it as it belongs to the city not the yanks marketing portfolio
     
    #23
  4. Page_Moss_Kopite

    Page_Moss_Kopite Well-Known Member

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    I mean ffs we couldn't have kept our 1st one.

    please log in to view this image



    1901 league champions medal.

    please log in to view this image
     
    #24
  5. The artist JerryChristmas

    The artist JerryChristmas "Massive old member"

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    Mate you know I'd back you up on this one if I could <laugh>
     
    #25
  6. Page_Moss_Kopite

    Page_Moss_Kopite Well-Known Member

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    Funny how its such a big deal now, EFC did use a version of it but decided on a prison cell instead, that's life when you can't afford to pay your landlord the rent Boots.<ok>

    <whistle>
     
    #26

  7. The artist JerryChristmas

    The artist JerryChristmas "Massive old member"

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    .:biggrin:
     
    #27
  8. The artist JerryChristmas

    The artist JerryChristmas "Massive old member"

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    **** off you...I've had a bad enough weekend without finding myself agreeing with you <doh>
     
    #28
  9. DirtyFrank

    DirtyFrank Well-Known Member

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    Not what the judge said! Lol
     
    #29
  10. Page_Moss_Kopite

    Page_Moss_Kopite Well-Known Member

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    So you aint forgive me and hash for talking gaelic.<laugh>

    Tbf to each their own on this but Alfie spending his hard earned cash on lawyers/court cases and flying the grandchildren of the original liver buildings architect over from germany is pure bitterness and desperation.<laugh>
     
    #30
  11. The artist JerryChristmas

    The artist JerryChristmas "Massive old member"

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    Or shows some true underdog spirit...well, as a blue he'll be used to being an underdog...and never winning anything <whistle>
     
    #31
  12. Tobes

    Tobes Warden Forum Moderator

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    Not being from the city nor even the country, you can't be expected to understand the significance of the symbol, the judge obviously shared your ignorance <ok>
     
    #32
  13. DirtyFrank

    DirtyFrank Well-Known Member

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    Lol: just stating the judgement as fact mate: didn't give my opinion on it either way.

    There goes your obsession with where people live again. I'm fairly sure I could find many a person from the city who doesn't know or doesn't care about the Liverbird or any other cultural aspect of the city they live in just like any city.

    I'm equally sure I could find someone from outside the city that knows more about its history & culture than you could ever hope to.

    Neither is at all relevant. Unless you're looking to spout yet more bitter bile which of course you are Tobes.

    Maybe I read it wrong but I believed the Club & City Council did a deal to hold the two separate copyrights so both could use it & protect it both as a symbol of the club i.e. stop fake LFC goods being made & sold and the council protecting it as a symbol of the city. If this is the case I can't see a reason other than the one put forward for a person wishing to disrupt that? But its his money; if he wants to throw it away I'm not going to ask him to stop.

    Can someone from the city on here that isn't filled with the overwhelming need to be a bitter prick confirm if this is indeed the case?
     
    #33
  14. Tobes

    Tobes Warden Forum Moderator

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    They've copyrighted the bird symbol not your badge, that's the entire point you docile tool
     
    #34
  15. DirtyFrank

    DirtyFrank Well-Known Member

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    Anyone? No?
     
    #35
  16. Page_Moss_Kopite

    Page_Moss_Kopite Well-Known Member

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    "In 2008 Liverpool Football Club applied to the intellectual office of trade marks to have the liver bird, alone (not with its LFC shied) trademarked. At that time there was some outcry and the application was withdrawn. Legendary Councillor Flo Clucas commented on this and stated that &#8220;it was outrageous this belongs to all the people of Liverpool not company or organization.&#8221; Ironically, Flo&#8217;s own Council might have something to say about that, as they own the copyright to another version of the bird &#8211; the one that they use!"

    Heres the full article Frank.

    http://www.sevenstreets.com/sport-and-active/who-does-the-liver-bird-belong-to/
     
    #36
  17. The artist JerryChristmas

    The artist JerryChristmas "Massive old member"

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    From what I remember Frank (which as you know gets hazier by the day) the copyrighting involved any "future" designs/productions of the image. I think any already in use (e.g. the councils) couldn't be covered by the copyright. This is the kind of thing LFC do for their own benefit (I know I know...football's just a business these days) without really caring about what the symbol actually means to the city as a whole. I realise they're only metal birds really but it's more than that isn't it? Being a maritime city one bird faces the river to watch over Daves lot and the other inland to watch over us landlubbers <laugh>

    Personally I don't think it's the clubs to own but obviously some random judge says differently so there ya go <ok>
     
    #37
  18. DirtyFrank

    DirtyFrank Well-Known Member

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    While we're waiting for a real answer confirming or contradicting what I have read:

    docile

    Adjective
    Ready to accept control or instruction; submissive.
    Synonyms
    tractable - obedient - tame - submissive - biddable

    I'm assuming Tobes you thought that word meant something else? If you're going to attempt to call someone an idiot its maybe a good idea to have a competent grasp of the language you are using. I'm many things some of them bad but I certainly don't fit the description as defined by the word docile.

    Who mentioned the badge anyway? I didn't. I believe LFC's argument was that regarding football fans and those oh so ignorant foreigners (anyone that doesn't live on your street) you despise Tobes; they would only recognise the Liverbird as a symbol of the football club not the city. Obviously those people of the city view it very differently.

    My question however was;

    I read in an article (I can't find it but trying) that an agreement was made between the club & the city council that one holds the European patent or copyright for the Liverbird & the other holds the UK registration of the symbol. I'm not sure I'm using the right terminology here; Swarbs is usually good with that stuff.

    Does this agreement exist & if so what are the details of it? Obviously Tobes you've shown you know even less than I do about this particular question as you failed to answer it and resorted to insults using words you didn't understand which made you look a little foolish.

    So anyone else?

    And the Club claim they only took the action to prevent illegal merchandise I.e merchandise using the Liverbird symbol to convey the idea that the product related to LFC when it wasn't officially sanctioned.

    Is there any evidence of the club attempting to stop anyone using the Liverbird symbol in a non football manner for example city tourist brochures, local organizations etc? If so then yes they are out of order.

    If not however & they've only used it to pursue knock off artists attempting to make money from the false impression their goods are official LFC merchandise then what is the actual issue?
     
    #38
  19. DirtyFrank

    DirtyFrank Well-Known Member

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    Edit: thanks Page and Billy; answered while I wrote!

    Must remember to hit edit not quote lol
     
    #39
  20. Page_Moss_Kopite

    Page_Moss_Kopite Well-Known Member

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    hould LFC own the rights to our Liver Bird? Yes, say those charged with ruling on logos (the OHIM &#8211; Office for Harmonisation in the Internal Market, if you please). No, say campaigners against the decision, who believe that the bird belongs to all of us.
    In 2008 Liverpool Football Club applied to the intellectual office of trade marks to have the liver bird, alone (not with its LFC shied) trademarked. At that time there was some outcry and the application was withdrawn. Legendary Councillor Flo Clucas commented on this and stated that &#8220;it was outrageous this belongs to all the people of Liverpool not company or organization.&#8221; Ironically, Flo&#8217;s own Council might have something to say about that, as they own the copyright to another version of the bird &#8211; the one that they use!
    Fact is, that bird&#8217;s been chopped up and handed out like a bargain bucket.
    In 2010 LFC reapplied through the OHIM and was successful in trade marking the Liver bird for their own range of merchandise &#8211; a lucrative trade bringing the club millions each year.
    &#8220;In the same year I made an application to the OHIM to have that decision revoked on the grounds that this symbol was and should belong to the people of Liverpool,&#8221; says objector Alfie Hincks. &#8220;and furthermore that the symbol is widely used within Liverpool.&#8221;
    &#8220;The OHIM was served with hundreds of pages of evidence proving that the Liver Bird is used widely, but disappointingly, after two years of deliberation and compiling evidence, the office has come down in favour of LFC.&#8221;
    In theory, this ruling means that if anyone who has a Liver Bird on their business or organisation could be asked by LFC to remove it, on the grounds of copyright infringement, or of &#8216;passing off&#8217; (trying to misrepresent your goods or services as being &#8216;official&#8217; LFC merchandise).
    &#8220;This ruling means that, in theory, the club could go after the Liverpool Echo,&#8221; says Maggie Ranage, former President of the Institute of Trademark Attorneys, &#8220;as they don&#8217;t own the copyright on their bird.&#8221;
    &#8220;Liverpool applied for, and won, the rights to the likeness of the bird in certain specific categories, which includes printed materials, so the bird on The Echo could constitute a claim of copyright infringement,&#8221; she says, adding that, in reality, any such claim wouldn&#8217;t get very far, as the Echo has been using the symbol for as long as the club. For future uses, though, any Liverpool company wanting to put a nice logo of a Liver Bird on their gloves, or letterheads, could find themselves with a battle on their hands.
    LFC has been granted copyright (in the EU) of the bird on:
    Small metal jewellery
    Clocks and watches
    Printed matter and stationary
    Leather and bags
    Clothing and footwear
    Games and playthings
    Financial products and insurance

    &#8230;and remember, that&#8217;s just the bird alone. Not with LFC or any other club logos. So it&#8217;s quite a list. But, evidently, if you want to put it on some garden implement, or, curiously, an iPhone case, you&#8217;re in the clear.
    &#8220;If the bird is used innocently by a local company, LFC could legitimately try to take it to court. But they wouldn&#8217;t be doing themselves any favours in PR terms,&#8221; Ranage says. &#8220;And anyone already using the symbol, such as the University or Trinity Mirror, shouldn&#8217;t worry too much.&#8221;
    In practice, SevenStreets feels the move is more to do with protecting the club&#8217;s official crest, rather than the bird itself: we really don&#8217;t envisage a situation where the club starts running after city businesses with that scrawny cormorant-hybrid on the logo. We spoke to LFC but they declined to comment.
    Other clubs, such as Barcelona&#8217;s, have crests similar to their official city&#8217;s emblem &#8211; with no copyright agreement in place. It&#8217;ll be interesting to see how this ruling pans out.
    Hincks has two months to lodge an appeal, which he says he will be doing.



     
    #40

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