Even if it happens during the warm-up... Swarbs, good argument except for the bit where Allen was supposedly lifting his arm from an unnatural position. Did he ****. I've used the 'starfish' argument myself, and i accept that if a player is 'making himself big' (fnarr, fnarr) they are trying to gain an advantage. Allen didn't do this - try doing a kung Fu kick off the ground with your left leg and tell me what happens to your right arm, and how much control you have over it even if you're consciously trying to hold it by your side, let alone when you just try and do it 'naturally' without controlling your right arm at all. Oh, and stop arguing on our board when you ban us from yours, hypocrite.
Disagree there - imo the rules should be trying to remove the ref's individual opinion from the equation as much as possible to ensure consistency. Otherwise you end up with the situation where one ref has one opinion, one has another, and so the same situation is treated differently in different games and everyone cries foul. The rules currently deal with that situation very clearly - the ref has to decide whether or not the player moved their arm into a position where it was likely to be struck by the ball. And in that situation Allen did. Never said it was unnatural. The whole movement was completely natural, but then so was Vidic against Arsenal in 2011 when it should have undoubtedly been a penalty for handball. In fact, that example illustrates precisely what I am saying - the ref in that game assumed Vidic was just trying to use his arms as leverage to make a clearing header, when he should just have looked at the position of his hands and given the pen. And you can make that type of movement with arms close to your body - I used to do it all the time when kickboxing cos if you let your arms come away from your head the other guy will slap you there! Allen used his arms to increase the speed at which he closed the distance, and in doing so took the risk of his hand moving into the path of the ball. Now now boys, no need to
I think you've disagreed with yourself there in order to save me the trouble. And your last sentence is speculation- you can't possibly know that.
Have you guys ever, in the history of football thoughts that instead of being the posts, refs, United or the FA's fault it might just be that you are not as good as you like to think. So far this season you have blamed everyone and everything for you being in **** position. At times the refs have been **** and thats fair enough, the FA are idiots and posts are actually 1mm thicker than last season. This stuff happens to every club though, useless refs, poor finishing and a governing body who has little clue whats happening. The rest of us just get on with it and dont let it stop us winning.
" I used to do it all the time when kickboxing cos if you let your arms come away from your head the other guy will slap you there! " And therefore it is an unnatural, controlled act. Like how you leave youself unguarded when you swing a haymaker unless you're a trained boxer or suchlike. And anyway, Liverbird, why is Swarbs, Eric and now UIR on our board when they ban any of us on their board when you have the ****ing audacity to disagree with them when they're talking about liverpool (roughly 50% of all posts on there)? Do your stuff and eradicate the vermin please.
Not sure how I've disagreed with myself? The aim is to eliminate individual variations in opinion as much as possible, so you ask the referee to make a ruling on a situation in as factual a manner as possible - did he move his arms towards the path of the ball or not? And it's not speculation - it's in the rules. The most recent guidance clearly states refs need to look at the movement of the arm with respect to the ball. When he said the rest of us, he didn't mean the Frenchman... It is an unnatural controlled act. But so is jumping above someone to challenge for the ball without leaning on the shoulders of the guy below you. And so is leaping to try and win a 50:50 ball at high speed without showing your studs or taking both feet off the floor. Avoiding committing a foul in football is quite often about controlling your movements in a manner that is relatively unnatural, and blocking a shot without allowing your arms to come into a position where they have a chance of blocking the ball is no different. You weren't banned for disagreeing with people. You were banned for bringing the Suarez argument into yet another completely unrelated thread in an effort to wind people up (this one in case you've forgotten: http://www.not606.com/showthread.php/176996-Just-imagine-you-were-Clattenberg). I understand you still have this desperate need to try and convince us all that Suarez was innocent and fitted up like a kipper by forces beyond the comprehension of mere mortals like us. But honestly all the rest of us don't care. I think we were remarkably patient to be honest. Even Richard Dawkins would probably kick a creationist out of his house if he'd spent the best part of 11 months trying to convince him of the existence of God using the same arguments over and over again (that's for you RHC ).
Swarbs , why do you spend more time on our board than your own is it because all your manc are sad prawn sandwich eating c**ts who ahve never been to a game in there life ( I suspect YOU havnt been to a game in a long time ).Is it cos your a"bit weird " and extremely "insecure" and you get a cheap thrill , out of annoying and irritating other people. Why dont you f**k off back to your OWN board you sad c*nt ps. You are EXTREMELY F**KIN BORING,and I think its fair to say that I speak for the majority of Liverpool fans, WE DONT GIVE A F*CK what you have to say and what you think, so go back to your OWN board where someone may actually give a f**k what you have to say
Well, I highlighted your contradiction in my previous post so I'm not going to spell it out. If you don't want to accept it, that's fine by me- I've no desire to get into tortuous word games. So, you reckon that in the split-second between the ball leaving (Demel's?) foot and hitting Allen's arm, the latter had time to calculate the trajectory of the ball ( which could have gone in any one of a number of directions and/or angles) and move his arm to intercept it? Yeah, right. Almost all commentators, including Allardyce, have stated that they considered it a harsh decision, but no matter what, there are always some who want to come here and argue the toss over anything and everything.
You appear to have misread what I said again. It's nothing to do with calculating the trajectory of the ball - refs are specifically told not to consider that. It's to do with Allen deliberately running into the path of a shot, and leaving his arm away from his side in an area where there was a good chance a well struck shot could have hit it. I agree it's a harsh decision, but I also agree with Gerrez that it would have been equally harsh on West Ham had one of their players taken a shot, which had a reasonable chance of resulting in a goal, and that shot had been blocked by a players arm which, naturally or otherwise, was moved into the path of the shot a second or so before Demel pulled the trigger. But you are right, it's one of those marginal calls that people will always disagree on. Have to say, personally I'd have thought you guys would be happier that for the first time in a while you've managed to win a game in which the marginal decisions went against you - that showed a resilience you've lacked thus far this season and bodes well for the rest of the year if you can keep it up.
