MON has stated "THE regeneration of Sunderland is not a quick fix" but why? The regeneration of Stoke, West Ham, Norwich, WBA, Swansea seems to be way ahead of us and we've had a head start and financial clout over all of them. I'm bewildered by SAFC!
Okay, I kind of understand where you are coming from but let me counter this bewilderment? Of the clubs you mention above on paper they are doing better but lets assume (and we are buggered if we don’t) that we beat Reading tonight, we will have 16 points after what we all describe as a nightmare season so far. That means we are 10 points behind WBA; 7 behind Stoke & Swansea; and 6 behind WHU & Norwich - all of whom, have had 'fantastic' starts? We have 22 games still to play after tonight which represents 66 points still up for grabs. It’s not exactly way ahead is it? They are ahead but none of them are out of reach. We need to up our game for sure and there will be recruitments in 3 weeks time to help with that, I think that’s a given. One other thing to remember here is the fact that all of the above can only go one way - a down turn in form - which is more likely to happen which will balance things up by May and it is May when all these numbers count. However the biggest factor for me is this. Clark, Hughton and Laudrup have been at their respective clubs 6 months, having all been appointed in June this year and are all enjoying the managers honeymoon periods. Martin had the same effect for his first 4 months but it tailed off as is to be expected with he same set of players essentially that failed under Bruce. Let’s see what happens if Michu is injured or Long/Odemwinge/ Holt as we have had with Fletcher for 4 or 5 games. All of the above have yet to hit their brick wall and all have had a 4 or 5 game burst to get them where they are. Why cant we do just that? I think we can starting with tonight. Against Utd, City and Spurs I expect very little tbh but there is no pressure on us at all and we can just go out and play the game not the occasion. Southampton and Liverpool are games we can get something from imo, then we can recruit and go for the next 17 games with fresh faces and pace. Also, we are now on manager number 4 in just 5 seasons in the top flight (Keane, Sbragia, Bruce and Martin) and this has not led to any stability or longer term building.. Stoke have had Pulis in for 6 years and WHU are still on the back of an excellent promotion party with fat Sam into his 2nd full season and a shed load of dosh. It’s easily forgotten but as a club we have been pretty woeful for over 70 years now, with 1 trophy since 1936. That kind of ****e isn’t going to be cured overnight but in MON we have for the first time secured a manger who has all the credentials and history to succeed here but he isn’t a miracle worker. SAF took 4 seasons to get it right at Utd and their history is littered with trophies and success; Man City took 3 managers, 6 years with more money than the rest of the league put together, only to win the title on goal difference in the last minute of last season. There simply isn’t anyone out there with a better C.V. than the man we already have but we have to let him build HIS team not judge him on the players bought by Bruce. It’s ridiculous to suggest otherwise imo. It may take another 12 months of graft and hard work to get it right or he may bring in 2 or 3 this January and kick start the season but either way he has to be given the time and support to do his thing. I will dare bet that by the end of May there wont be a *** paper between ALL the above mentioned teams and us and we wont imo be in the bottom 3 either. Keep the faith with a top class manager and stop looking for inferior alternatives that don’t warrant consideration in any shape or form.
I'm with Cest on this one - With the exception of Stoke, the clubs you've mentioned have only been back in the top flight for this season and last at most - we've been here now for longer than in my entire lifetime - our 5th season in a row - and Laudrup and Hughton are still in a big honeymoon period. Itr's pointless looking for another manager at our club IMO as I honestly think we have the best we can get. I can't see most of the ones being mentioned coming to SAFC and I don;t think any of them are better than O'Neill TBH. No quick fix - we were in the same position last season and went on a fantastic run which ended when we no longer had anything to play nfor (FA Cup against Everton) - just haven't got started again yet.
Here's a question for some of you. Apart from the top few teams; Citeh, Utd,Chelski, Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton and Spuds. Would you swap our squad with any other in the premier league? Do Fulham or Swansea have a better squad? Would you swap our circumstances with any other of them (SOL, Manager, Crowds, Ellis Short) Was it last season when Spuds started off badly! ... I never at all thought they would stay down the bottom, which they didn't. It was because they had too many good players. I think we are in a similar position to Spuds last year. I'll say it, We're too good to go down! (That should get a response Cest)
Cest I really do respect your views about the game and you wrtie a good thread. However, MON only plays with 16 players where ever he's been. He also had the same number 2 (which we don't have). One thing bar Big Sam is that the managers in said article are a lot younger and are from a different coaching background. Time will tell if you are right but is being stubbon the way forward? Not changing a thing and hoping it clicks, cause that's all he's doing, hoping we get the rub of the green - good management? I think not. Having a football brain and managing men are different things and O'Neill doesn't have a football brain (my opinion). Manging a side full of players who have been relegated and very young pro's takes a lot more than hoping it'll click. What is our style of play? We are going down if we carry on like this.... If you don't like what I'm saying, have your say but a good point will be the best thing otherwise this thread will just turn into name calling like the rest.
All Sunderland need is a goal hungry nippy striker. Obviously in the Philips or Defoe mould, the type of player who will shoot early from range and pick up the pieces close in. A bit of footie Viagra and the rest will slip in to place.
MoN is still trying to learn to strike a match.. Evolution of mankind, is the way forward...but i'm sad to think, that MoN may just not have evolved in his modern thinking, and is stuck in the past
If you lads were being brutally honest, where would you rank your squad in terms of overall quality to deal with a 38 game PL season? I reckon Sunderland probably have about 12th-13th best squad in the division currently. If you win tonight you'll be sitting 15th only 4 points from 13th place. Not ideal of course but not far off the position I'd expect on the basis of the current squad. MON is doing what he can with what he has at his disposal. He'll feel after the coming window he can add two or three who take your squad to maybe the 10th best in the division. Each window he'll look to jump 2 to 3 spots in quality. It will require patience but it is difficult to jump much quicker. There are exceptions of course, we took massive leaps because Carr came up with a few gems with the likes of Tiote, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Santon. We haven't managed to show it this season and have found ourselves ill equipped to deal with the extra burden of Europe etc after a summer of inactivity. We probably have about the 8th/9th best squad on paper I reckon. Swansea have done that this season with the additions of Michu, Hernandez, Ki, De Guzman, Chico. They would rank right up there in depth of quality outside the top 7. Others have done it much more steadily like Stoke, Fulham, West Brom. That is all MON is suggesting for me. The overview is there is very little difference in overall quality of squads outside the top 6/7. Indeed one slack window can see 3 or 4 teams move past you. Sunderland will not go down, and over 38 games will find themselves somewhere relative to the quality of their squad. Its not easy because the margins between the sides is very small.
In squad quality over 38 games I'd rank the league as such. City Chelsea United (false position as they have Ferguson who adds an unbelievable amount to their squad) Arsenal (false position because Wenger seems to be losing it) Tottenham Everton Liverpool Swansea Newcastle Fulham Sunderland West Brom West Ham Stoke QPR (False position as they have class individuals who are all mercenaries that haven't gelled.) Norwich Southampton Villa Wigan Reading That'd put us in 11th unless AJ, Sess and Fletcher all hit form, then I'd put us above Fulham.
We're not far apart but I do think you underestimate Stoke. As ugly as their play is they have a strong spine. Begovic/Huth/Shawcross/Adam/N'Zonzi/Crouch. They have decent back up in most areas too. More than anything their 5 man strikeforce of Crouch, Jones, Jerome, Walters, Owen is an absolute handful and having a depth of strikers in the PL is a massive bonus. Also think West Brom have a strong side particularly in midfield and the striking department with Yacob, Mulumbu, Morrison, Gera, Dorrans, Long, Lukalu, Odemwingie.
Totally agree, however, I'm sick of relegation battles, I'd be more than happy for a couple seasons comfortable in mid table then progress
This. I agree with what MoN said yesterday - if we sack him, who do we get in? Do we sack them after a year unless we improve by three positions each season? Everton under Moyes had a couple of years flirting with relegation but look at them now. And with money being mentioned I have to go with the net spend argument - ours isn't very high over 5 years in the Prem. It's easy to ignore the fact that spending over a 5-yr period will generally be high with clubs who change manager a lot, because changes in manager usually lead to changes in personnel, and you can get trapped in a 2-window-cycle. West Ham and Stoke have both spent a lot over the past 5/10 years, and now they are basically where we are - Stoke's net spend is 3rd in the league over the last 5 seasons (only Chels and City above) and Villa and QPR are both above us.
QPR have some class individuals, really? I don't rate Taarabt or Grannero, there's nothing else there really. Relegation zone squad.
