It's been talked about for a while but not sure if we have a thread for it. Can't say I am 100% sure whether it is a good idea to have a thread about it on our board either but thought I would give it a go (Mods, feel free to shut it down should it go wrong ). - - - - {LINK} - - - - What are peoples thoughts...? I think this is a absolute joke and should not be considered at all in this country! I am pretty sure Liverpool Football Club will never revert to standing areas but if they ever did there would be hell to pay I am sure
i was brought up when it was standing areas anyway, and it only brings good memories for me of going with my grandad and watching the game. if we want to take the stands back to how it used to be can we have the ruddy football back as well please, turning into a non contact girly f*ing whirly game nowdays. players go down nowdays if any one farts near them,bunch of pansies! esp Bale!!!!! haven't played footie for a while, but does this crap happen down the local park? doubt it, so why should professionals be acting all gay and make out they are dying. only thing that worries me about this idea is i think its just so they can cram more fans in and make more money. sadly this is all about f* money sure a lot of clubs owners will be keeping a keen eye on this, ours esp! should just add, what will happen to clubs like utd and Arsenal that have invested in all seaters and would have no need for this,i take it the clubs will have a choice whether to implement it or not, or is it another case of do as the FA say crap.
you have always been given a choice between standing and sitting even if you have f ked knees, the only thing that changed was the choice of standing or sitting got taken away, you had one, and it was sit down, but i think it is for the wrong reasons this time personally ie cram more in means more money, which is what the FA are all about now days, same as clubs sadly. drop the prices and make it so normal hard working people can go and support the club they love would be where i would start, but silly wages will not allow that to happen sadly.
Good memories I am sure pal. Unfortunately, I never got to go and experience standing for myself because my old man never liked football It happens occasionally but is usually treated as a bit of a laugh. However, if anyone does it and gets the freekick then the games becomes rather physical to say the least! No doubt about it Interesting take. I was thinking slightly differently. We have a 44k stadium and Man Utd have 77k making a difference of 33k already. If standing was to allow an extra 30% in then would would increase the difference would it not...? In other words, the rich get richer. whether Man Utd would be able to fill a 100k capacity stadium is another matter. Pretty sure Arsenal wouldn't sell out since they don't sell out now
I don't agree, I think a sensible debate on this issue is long overdue. The Taylor report was 20 years ago & whilst it brought about tremendous change for the better overall, in terms of new facilities etc, the lack of any standing areas within grounds does have a negative effect in terms of atmosphere (people being able to choose who they stand with etc) & many people merely stand in the seated areas anyway, particularly at aways (have United sat down at an away ever btw?) A return to the old terracing will never happen, but safe standing is available in Germany for example - where there's barriers between each 'row' & there's not people crammed in, they're merely stood - safely. I understand that for your club this is a debate that you'll probably want to watch from the sidelines of, but it needs having, as the public want it back.
Don't think it would affect capacities much - everyone would still have a designated seat, it's just the seat would flip up so they could stand. Capacity would still be limited by the number of seats, which would still be the same as they'd take the same amount of room when unfolded. Doubt anyone would accept anything more than a small increase in capacity due to standing - that would raise too many concerns about crowding and crushes.
Me personal experiences of standing is that I hate it, I remember as a kid getting pushed, kicked, punched and burnt by cigerettes and coffee at games and it did my swede in. My personal thoughts aside... football is a different animal to what it was in the 70's/80's. Police attitudes have changed while football clubs and ground staff have learnt from Hillsborough. If its done right and its done safe then I say go for it
I agree with most of that TB but I think it's a debate we actually don't want to watch from the sidelines (obviously I realise why you say that). It's a debate LFC has to engage in because quite simply i think it will happen at quite a few big grounds within the next decade (bigger Championship and some Prem grounds). I can actually see it coming back at Anfield one day but if it ever did you can guarantee we'd be one of the last to make it happen understandably. For obvious reasons I'm split on the issue. I totally understand where those opposed to the idea are coming from and I will forever share their concerns regarding fan safety being of paramount importance. For people who lost loved ones at Bradford or Hillsborough for instance, the change in standards of the stadia must be at least some consolation however small. One of my biggest concerns about it would be how safe would it really be if policing/stewarding costs started to be reduced at certain grounds, maintenance standards start to slip a little at first then it becomes a viscious circle of decay, times are hard etc etc. They may well be safe areas when they are first constructed but how safe will they be 20/30 years down the line? How safe will they be if the money bubble bursts and the cash starts to drain away? I am however totally pro standing if it was done properly and with a high level of safety in mind. I grew up standing at games. I love it. I love the extra buzz and the extra atmosphere it brings. I'd go back to standing in a heart beat. I never felt anymore unsafe on the old Kop than I do now when everyone's standing between rows of seats (which is half the time anyway). I totally agree that technology has changed and attitudes have changed too. I honestly believe it can be done safely. A lot of the pre-Taylor report grounds were perfectly safe places to stand and watch a game (not always the most hygienic places I grant you ). Unfortunately a lot of grounds were shockingly "maintained", terribly policed, caged in the fans and were an accident waiting to happen. My own personal opinion is that standing has never killed anyone at a match. Horrendously inept policing and organisation, caging people in like animals, bad design and shoddy maintenance certainly have though. I'd honestly have no problems if all grounds went back to having standing areas as long as standards are guaranteed with 100% compliance from every single club who wants to put them in.
It would also raise concerns that clubs were only doing it for extra revenue rather than as a "fan experience" (which is how they'll sell it). Plus I think the size of areas they're talking about wouldn't make a massive difference either way, although I'm pretty sure most places would have the seats out totally and only put back in for European games. Doubt they'll leave the seats in as that makes it much less safe as a standing area.
What if it has changed so much because of people having to sit? Afterall, sitting as resulted in less crowd trouble because it was easier to control.
Anyone thinking clubs won't be looking at attendance figures with re-introducing standing is insane IMO. They won't sell it that way and if it was introduced, the increases would not happen immediately, but I guarantee that the clubs will have plans for a year or two down the line. If you think of it in terms of capacity in a meeting room. If you have people around a table in a ten foot square room, you will probably get eight around said table. Set them up in a theatre audience style and you would get fifteen. Make them all stand and you could possible get 20+. It is simple fire regulations and clubs will see that people do not need as much room if standing. If the tops clubs around Europe have standing areas, how long until European competition is allowed too? We all know how FIFA and UEFA love to bend over and present themselves to the bigger clubs
i personally hope it is not brought in, i loved standing dont get me wrong and would love for it to come back, but it wouldn't be practical, this may all start with the best of intentions of crowd safety etc,BUT somewhere down the line corners will be cut just to save f ing money and lives will be taken as a result of greed.
That's the salient point mate, & fortunately there's no way that'll ever be allowed to happen again at a British football arena, which is the key legacy of the Taylor report.
This. There's an argument that more people would have died at Hillsborough had the ground had seats, as people would have been crushed against the seats as well as the fencing. The main advantage of seating is that, when properly managed and policed, it's one person to one seat. Safe standing offers the same benefit as there are still assigned seats, they just fold away. That might be the case if any top PL clubs were supporting the proposal, but they aren't. The only PL clubs to support it are those like Villa, who can't sell their grounds out and are hoping safe standing might get them closer to capacity. If anything, clubs like Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea will be the strongest opponents, cos they don't care how many £20 standing seats they can sell if the resulting noise and increase in unsavoury chanting that would undoubtedly result mean they can sell fewer £5,000 hospitality and £100 premium tickets. Just look at the PL statement - all seaters mean more diverse crowds. They say more women and children, but what they mean is more rich people who can afford the fees they charge. Besides which, clubs like Utd and Liverpool could charge as much for a standing ticket as they do for a seating ticket, so revenue wouldn't be affected.
I used to love standing, atmosphere is far better, you get to chat to loads of people. Only negative is that someone losses up my cousins back once, that shouldn't happen too often. As long as safety issues can be overcome id love terraces back.
Absolutely agree. With the "hooligans = fans therefore fans = hooligans" mentality coupled with the deduction that all fans are animals, the culture of policing at the time was radically different. Police would push from behind, box in fans to "prevent riots" etc, further escalating conflicts. Stadia were falling apart, shoddy concrete work + dangerous fencing were disasters waiting to happen. After the disasters did happen the system changed, with more emphasis on smart supporters collaborating with security measures. Our stadium and many around the globe are more prepared for ANY incident should it occur. Add that to the stricter rules on drinking and banning for life of known troublemakers. I think that if standing were to be re-implemented it would be safer and more controllable in 2012 than it was in 1982. Of course I'm not bothered either way, we know it's better to be safe now than to be sorry later. I just think people shouldn't dismiss the idea so quickly.
If you look at the clubs who back a return to terracing Villa are the only prem club amongst them, LFC will always back the Hillsborough families who don't want standing up to return, the other 'big' clubs won't back the idea because they'll lose revenue by restructuring their stadiums and charging lower prices to stand, the FA have already said they won't be asking the government to get rid of the Taylor recommendations, probably because their revenue will be lower if the clubs make less. I'm personally in favour of keeping things as they are but we live in a democracy and if the majority want standing allowed it will happen in the future when the football financial bubble bursts(probably starting at Utd when their current manager retires)because once people are finally priced out of going to games the clubs will pander to the fans wishes to survive.
