Queens- agree with what you say about the books, I thought they were a good read, more than once, and as you say, he obviously knows his stuff (and our local manor Northolt/Greenford etc). Can't agree about 'I.D' though. Hated it from start to finish and felt I'd wasted 90mins of my life after seeing it at the cinema. But then again, it meant I could go round calling my mates 'Gumbo' for ages so it couldn't be that bad
Mate, you could be right about ID and I'm just remembering it from my "youthfull era" with tinted glasses. Thinking about it, seems a bit cheesy TBH but might have to dig it out and give it another watch, just to see how good/bad it was... "shadwell Dogs"...LMFAO!
Depending on severity of threat, doubt 'cowardliness' and 'pacifism' would stop any of us men or women, young or old from doing all we could to defend our love ones etc. but the pathos of this and other films along similar lines, is in the buzz these type of low lifes get from gratuitously injuring others for little more than the hell of it. Whilst it seems to be set somewhere in the early to mid 80s, it resonates from the more uniformed 'hooliganism' that was rife in the Loft etc. in the late 60s and through the 70s. As a youngster, I was a bit of a voyeur watching stuff like this kick-off down South Africa after loads of games. Couldn't quite understand it then and probably even less so with the passing of time. But what impressed me wasn't so much the tribal story line but more the ways in which the director and actors put their condemnatory message(s) across. Stuff like the two old guys as the moral guardians as Mattie mentions above, and the number of times these 'warriors' came unstuck yet remained in denial. I liked the way the jokes ran visually, without the usual American type explanatory dialogue there only for the benefit of the expected 'thick' audience; and all the ultra-realistic contradictions such as racist taxi driver (ha!), the flower business and the antagonist selling charlie to his Anglo-Turkish Millwall foil... could go on and on, the devices were imo that well employed - but I'll spare you all that. Read a lot in my younger years but came to a point where I decided I couldn't be arsed with other people's fantasies (had enough of me own!) and now much prefer reading factual material. Same applied to films. But then every once in a while I stumble across something that gets my attention. Bored last night after a long hard season of bollox and along comes this. Expected little more than a load of depressing, grizzling cockney tosh (bit like Oldman's 'Nil by Mouth') but ended up more than pleasantly surprised - especially since I'd seen it before!
Ok Brix, possibly a first for Not606, a real poem by a proper poet! Your reflections on reading brought this to mind.... A Study Of Reading Habits by Philip Larkin (1922-1985) When getting my nose in a book Cured most things short of school, It was worth ruining my eyes To know I could still keep cool, And deal out the old right hook To dirty dogs twice my size. Later, with inch-thick specs, Evil was just my lark: Me and my cloak and fangs Had ripping times in the dark. The women I clubbed with sex! I broke them up like meringues. Don't read much now: the dude Who lets the girl down before The hero arrives, the chap Who's yellow and keeps the store, Seem far too familiar. Get stewed: Books are a load of crap.
Brix, I think it was a very good film too. Another footie film that was very good (although not hooligan) was "The Damned United". Johnny Giles has a few words with Cloghie in it over the upcoming game with QPR. And Clough replies "Stop Stan Bowles. That's how you beat QPR"
A tad harsh Brix......some (ex) hooligans can be very nice chaps so i've been told I think the subject of Hooliginism would deserve a thread of it's own. It's not big, Its not clever but it happens.......Why is the interesting thing. (Great review of the deeper meanings of the film btw)
Yeah, that's me that is... kind of. Different fantasies though (horrible thought that meringues bit!). But the thing is I do like books but ones about 'real' stuff. Truth stranger than fiction and all that. Done much of my time now, seen what's in Pandora's box but still can't get my head around some of the things people are capable of. So you take it in, contemplate and digest it a bit Larkin-like I suppose, until it yields in the wake of the latest revelation - that may actually be centuries old but you've only just caught on. A bit slow sometimes, me!
Avoided that one Swords - because the Clough family said it was bollox. That's more a reflection on me as the factual freak (so disappointed with 'Braveheart' for that very reason). Think you're right though. Should be more adventurous.
Staines, there's a bloke with a new book out and he was on the radio recently banging on about how working-class football fans are being targeted by groups such as the SBL and other "holier than thou" types - inevitably from upper-middle class backgrounds - and how they're singling them out as part of a snobbish crusade to make themselves feel superior to these "racist yobs". He gives a persuasive argument. Can't think of his name or the name of the damn book!
great film. watched it many a time, do like nick love films generally. if you like this, watch 'the business'. and swords, 'the damned utd' is really good too, michael sheen plays a blinder.
It is. Even though Giles is played by a lanky, stringy bloke even though he's short and blocky. The bloke than played Bremner looked the part though. As did the lad that played the big hardy Scotch lad that took over from Clough. What was his name again? Malcolm?
Must confess my mind wandered over Staines way a bit when making that 'bit 'arsh' observation. But it was my truth then as it's our truth now, so I knew you'd understand Mr M! Just because we're products / victims of our early environs doesn't mean we have to stay there does it? Respect!
My old man was an avid reader, especially after he retired - and he never read a word of fiction in his life. I like to mix it up a bit, but re read a lot of favourite authors. The Kindle and it's imitators are my favourite technological advance - a library in your hand. Outstanding.
Sounds interesting Swords. If you find out what it's called let me know. I can't see how the SBL could make it into a 'race' thing to be honest, 'class' quite possibly.
I really liked that one. My Granddad was a Forest fan and I was well aware of lots of Cloughie's exploits but that film covered a period of history that I didn't have a clue about (probably quite dramatised but you get the feel for the time and context). Saw Michael Sheen in Frost v Nixon about a year before and thought he was fantastic in both.
D'you know, that's the one thing I envy about your globetrotting job Stan - all those hours available for catching up on interesting material. It's one of the reasons why you're so friggin' cute mate! We reap the rewards on here so long may it continue!
I'm just stunned that there is an entire genre of films 'hooligan chic' that I was completely unaware of until this thread. I read somewhere that the demographic of 'hardcore hooligans' is interesting - lots of blokes in their 30s and 40s with good jobs and plenty of money. Certainly different to what I saw in the 70s which was definitely mobs of kids, herd-like. To over generalize I guess this is where ignorance, stupidity, tribal rites of passage and a thirst for adrenalin meet opportunity in the shape of ready made tribes willing to fight. If it wasn't footy there would be other outlets. This country (and many others) has a long history of routine, choreographed violence in everyday life. It's no worse or better now than a century ago.
In that one paragraph SB, i think you've pretty much hit the nail formly on the head. I really couldn't of put it better myself.
