I completely agree. And I include any beneficiaries of schemes ran by Bjorn Stiedl and his companies in that.
Do "Ra faifo fru in fru" otherwise known as Timothy, believe that Celtic, a PLC who are obliged by their shareholders and law to maximise a financial return for investors, pay as much tax as they 'morally' should?
Yes I do, Celtic after all was set up as a charitiable institution. I know times have changed but people who invest money into the club should not expect to make a profit from it, especially through Tax loopholes.
TBH I'm not even using the moral excuse. I'm using the excuse that the people in charge of your club engaged in risky activity - activity that others in the same industry deemed too risky because it had borderline legality - and in the end it didn't work out too well as it created this massive uncertainty which killed the club. It's the fault of those people who engaged in risky behaviour, not the fault of HMRC for investigating it.
Well, Mr Advocate, I know, yes, I KNOW that they exploit loopholes to avoid paying the maximum rate of tax, and in particular, Corporation Tax. I also know that there are 3 CFC's which operate from Sellick Park, one of these Sellick's gets used to funnel profits through to pay Pistol, Dermond Desmort et al. Of course, there is nothing wrong with that, as it's everyone right to make money, I just think that it's naive of you to think that Celtic are not tax efficient, because, EVERY company worth their salt employs ways and means to limit its exposure to tax.
Mick, I agree with you. Dev and Weeble though are arguing that it's immoral not to pay as much tax as possible. In other words, yourself as a tax exile, are immoral in the eyes of the Devster and El Weeblington.
I've been taxed at UK rates on every penny I've earned while working in the UK though. I didn't move for tax reasons, I moved for work - and it's only by happy chance that the tax burden is lower here. It would be like calling all the expats who live and work in Dubai immoral, just because Dubai doesn't charge income tax and the UK does.
All the expats who live and work in Dubai are immoral http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7985361.stm
Rangers oldco screwed the taxpayer out of £15m. (Let's ignore the various other people that lost out when Rangers went into Administration) That's the very definition of immoral.
Stop evolving the argument, Dev. You said tax avoidance was immoral. I pointed out that every company in Britain employs a tax efficiency scheme in one way or another. If you think that a company going bust is the very definition of immoral, then you're not living in the real world, Dev.
Always the *****s like Med Dog, Wedgey and Super Sevco who mount an argument based on what they think people have said rather than whay they actually did say.
I very much inhabit the real world and I have never attempted to dodge paying taxes because i'm an Idealist, but I am also a huge cynic, I can be both and still be right. Tax avoidance or evasion is immoral in my opinion, so is attempting to pay off people who are owed money by offering them 5p in the pound. It is immoral to me because I can hold my hand up and say in all honesty that i've never done what Rangers did (and also attempted to do). Rangers paid wealthy players huge amounts of money, large sums which were given as loans and therefore almost tax free. That is not only immoral, it is nauseating. And to pre empt you, yes, if Celtic did it I would be equally repulsed.
You don't live in the real world, you're living in world pining for an ideal world, and we both know that doesn't and will never exist. I recall you telling me that your boy has started in business for himself, I hope he does well and good luck to him. I can bet you a zillion Lira that if he can dodge paying a couple of pounds in tax through claiming a meal was entertainment or was for work, or if he buys a pair of boots that he will never wear at work but claims that they are, will you brand him immoral?Or how about this one, if he's lucky enough to make a decent living off it, and he's claimed his £40k tax free dividend and there is more money there for him that he's worked hard to earn, but if he takes it out, he'll need to pay 40% tax on it, and his wife works for some multi-national and half her wages goes on child care. So the opportunity arises that he can make her a director, but she doesn't 'work' and it allows him to take another £40k out through her 'tax free' and she can take the kids to school etc. Would that be immoral?Earn the family £80k tax free or earn £40k tax free but have his wife work for half pay after child care and have the kids looked after by some people you don't know for umpteen hours a day?
Again as I said i'm a cynic too. My son screwing the Taxman for a few hundred or a few thousand quid is hardly on the same scale as we are talking about here Edge. The realist in me knows that plenty of wealthy people - who least need more money - are milking the Tax system for all it's worth. Rangers are not the only club to have done similar but it does not make it any less galling to Joe sixpack watching 22 men kicking a ball around a lawn giving us all the shaft.
It has been said that a cynic is just a man who found out when he was about ten that there wasn't any Santa Claus ... and he's still upset. Take it you don't believe in Santa - then again did you ever?
I did believe in Santa and it was magical. I recall when I was 4 how distraught I was when my older brothers convinced me that they were waving goodbye to Santa up in the sky, and I couldn't see him. I thought a few years later what a pair of bastards they had been, now in hindsight I see what they did as a wee bit beautiful.
Ah - I like that very much. Are you sure that you're not a sceptic (as am I) rather than a hardened cynic ... when you smell flowers, surely you don't look around for a coffin?
