Kind of but not quite. Rooney would play centre mid but in an advanced position of the two deeper CM's. Then the two wide players are further forward with the striker as the focal. It defines Rooney as a midfield player rather than a striker and he pretty much replaces Paul Scholes. Kagawa would have to play wider or coming in off the wing as a result, fairly sure he's more than capable of adapting to most advanced roles given. With Fletcher coming back, Anderson hopefully about to find some fitness (not holding my breath though), Jones to return and Cleverly and Carrick the current first choices Scholes can retire with Powell primed to deputise for Rooney. As can Giggs. (retire, not deputise) All this depends on all our players getting and staying fit, Jones, Vidic and Smalling are still a way off yet.
Just because Clev/Ando would be part of a deeper lying 2 doesnt mean they are defensive. Carricks job would be to protect and ping the ball out. Clev/Ando are the legs. Jones would provide a b2b option. Almost the opposite sort of b2b as Rooney.
I know that it wouldn't mean they need to play defensive, but that is our by far our weakest spot in our squad. Opposing teams can walk through our midfield. If you were to put someone with a lot of energy like Jones, or Fletcher with Carrick it will free up Carrick to focus more on dictating the play and spreading the ball, while the other midfielder does a lot more of the dirty work. Cleverly could be effective in the Carrick role, but I don't think he's disciplined enough tactically to play the deeper role next to Carrick. Anderson is most effective when he's pushed farther up the field where he can play forward balls to the wingers/forwards. He isn't suited to sitting further back like Carrick/Scholes. He needs to play in the front of the 2 deeper midfielders to be most effective. Obviously both Cleverly and Anderson are professionals so they can play that role, but we should have some one much better or more suited to playing that role. Anderson also doesn't have the legs to play box to box for 90 minutes, wether he just eats to many cookies, parties too much or just get the **** end of the stick with genes (I can relate to that) he just doesn't seem capable of lasting that long in an even game. Granted if we have the ball and our camped in their half for 70% of the game then he'll be fine. But if it's a fairly even game in terms of possession and hits ect. He'll tire out around 60 minutes. I'm not trying to slate Anderson, I'm one of his few remaining fans, but I'm just giving my honest opinion.
Anderson tires when he plays in a midfield 2 and is expected to do all the running. Carrick barely moves tbh Add Rooney in who wont stop running and let Anderson or Cleverly learn to make the right runs, go forward at the right time and conserve energy. Intelligent football rather than headless chicken stuff.
Carrick is just very smart in his movements and reading of the game, so he just tends to be in the right places without overexerting himself. I'm not worried so much about Anderson and Cleverly going forward, it's about them defending. This season and last season we've been shipping goals because our back four is exposed to easily. Carrick isn't enough of a cover for the back four against teams that come at us, Cleverly and Anderson aren't the answer defensively. The point I was originally trying to make is we NEED some one who can provide that defensive cover and still contribute in the attack. If we stop conceding soft goals at the back we won't have to deal with coming from behind every game.
Which is why 4 4 2 can't be used, even though that would always be my choice if we had a good enough CM pair to carry it off. We don't though so we need that extra protection. A bit of width gets sacrificed but so long as the players are flexible it can be done. I reckon we've got the players to do it.
We definitely have the players, we should be pinning teams in like we did second half v Spurs and 1st half v Newcastle. Relentless stuff. I dont like this idea of getting a lead and sitting on it though, we never used to do that but at times in the recent past we have. If we are getting to that stage of a game where players in midfield are tiring, unless there is an injury we should be looking to freshen it up and continue the insane pace and none stop attack. We would win the league by a mile. We need to do this in Europe aswell, I mean we are the team that only Barcelona have bettered in the last 6 years of football ffs, we shouldnt be concerned about any teams in europe really, we should be feared. The pace and constant attacks we saw v Spurs and Newcastle will go some way to reminding teams they should be scared.
So apparently are tactics this year involve giving teams a 1-2 goal handicapp! Lately our formation has been 4-1-2-1-2, which could either be a variation of a 442 or a 433 depending on whose where. I'd like to see us play a midfield of Cleverly Carrick Anderson With Rooney behind Hernandez and RVP. It won't give us our width we have with Valencia, but Rafael does enough attacking to make up for the initial lack of width. This question is a bit odd, because I'm not sure if we'll agree on the answer. When fully fit, what is our strongest back four? 2 years ago we didn't have a RB who was always first choice, but the other 3 defenders were without a doubt first choice. Now we have Rafael and Evra as the only guaranteed starters when fit. With Vidic out for such a long time, we have no idea how well he can perform anymore, Rio is typically able to still play at a top level because of how well he reads the game, but struggles with some of the athleticism of our opponents. Evans, has improved leaps and bounds over the last season or so. After his nightmare against City last year, I'd argue he's been our best CB for the past 12 months. He's also been offering a good goal threat on set pieces this season. Smalling has only just returned from injury and from his display against Villa, he clearly needs minutes to get back into the swing of things. I view Jones as a future box to box midfielder so I won't include him. At the moment I'd say our best back four would be: Rafael Rio Evans Evra. If Vidic is fit I'd swap him for Rio, at first I was inclined to switch him for Evans, but Vidic was never quick to begin with, and with his age and lack of playing time in the past two seasons, I'd be worried about any sort of pace on opposing teams. Plus Evans deserves his starting spot IMO. I think our future CB pairing will be Evans and Smalling, and hopefully they'll start some games this season to test out the partnership.
It's all part of the plan. Concede a goal or two, then we can revert to the tried and tested 0-2-8 formation and bang in a hatful. Who needs tactics when you have RVP and Rooney with Chicharito and Welbeck as backup?
This is an interesting thread. There is a grain of truth in the rather flippant response of yours. I am now more worried with a 0-0 score in the second half (like vs Everton ) than being an early 0-1 down in the first half. The problem is that our midfield can be very ponderous at times. Scholesy for example did send his arrow like passes in the first half on Sunday as usual but the whole play lacked pace. When we went down 2-0, there was nothing to lose and SAF threw in his big guns. Three strikers on and I suspect he would have brought a fourth if the score was 2-1. Shearer said this the best strike force we've ever had. I am not sure about that. The 1999 one was better IMO.
I think Rooney and RVP are better as individual players, but that Yorke/Cole partnership was amazing. The you'd get the obvious comparison of Hernandez and Solksjaer, which leaves Welbeck and Sheringham. Ours now is better on paper, but it's too early to tell.
442 Rafeal- Rio-Vidic-Evra ...........Carrick............ Valenica...Cleverly.... Giggs .........RVP.....Rooney could be Young & Nani at wings too
I'm not really convinced that a 442 cuts it anymore, particularly in Europe. We may be able to get away with it in the league against some of the lower teams, but I've noticed even in recent years against the bigger sides SAF has opted for a 4231 or a 451. Football has evolved a fair bit since 99, were we conquered all with the 442. It has become all about retaining posession, and you need 3 in the middle of the park to do this effectively
I think 442 will remain effective domestically, assuming there's decent wingers around. Anyways, we're at the tail end of the season with a 15 point lead, so we really just have to not **** up and we'll win the title, so there isn't a reason to mess around with our tactics. However we have the three best goal scorers in the league. (RVP, Rooney, Chicharito). Ill do the research when I get home, but I can't think of anyone that's scored more goals than them individually over the past 3 years. Is there a way to start with all 3 on the field effectively? Obviously Hernandez would lead the line because he's really only good at being a poacher. He has however improved all other aspects of his game this year, looks to be a real professional in regards to putting in the extra work to become a better player. Both RVP and Rooney can drop deep or push out wide into space. However this leaves us with no natural width going forward which could create problems. Thinking it would look something along the lines of: ----------------Hernandez-------------- Rooney-----------------------Van Persie ------Kagawa/Anderson/Giggs------ ------------Carrick----Cleverly------ The attacking midfielder would have to play a bit deeper than they would in a 4231 as there wouldn't be wide players tracking back consistently. The only natural width would come from Rafael/Evra. Anyone have any other ideas? Or is Chicharito doomed for a sub role for the forseeable future?
I would be more comfortable playing that if Van Persie had the workrate of Rooney and would be willing to track back as much as he does but playing that formation and players would leave us exposed at rb imo, esp with rafael bombing forward so often. Welbeck would probably be a better fit there but again that probably means RVP taking Hernandez's place up top and leaving the poor sod on the bench again But then it could work if Cleverley adopted a more defensive mentality and covered back, esp at rb more often. Not really in his game though, would need more of a box to box mid for that role... Probably worth a go if we have a few games to spare at the end of the season though Other than that maybe... -----RVP-----Hernandez---- ---------Rooney----------- (or kagawa) --Giggs--Carrick--Cleverley (or anderson for one of them) Again leaves little width, meaning the full backs will have to bomb forward a lot but with three in mid, one should be free to provide adequate cover
I was going to post this exact formation and team This would be an alternative to Manobear's formation, and would suit us more at the moment as our wingers are all injured or out of form... I like the fact that the three strikers are in more familiar roles than if two of them play out wide. (Although they float around anyway, but in this formation the two strikers would have fewer defensive duties than if they played out wide)
