Gerrard

[chelsea - over 100 years of history]

Seen a couple of bits about Gerrard over the last couple of days and thought I'd open up the debate here as it's a quiet week.

With Gerrard about to reach 100 caps Talk Sport were debatting where he stood along with the top English midfielders.

And...

Imbrahimovic has suggested he should go to a top international team.

Personally I think 100 caps is a great achievement but Gerrard (and Lampard) has been part of the biggest underachieving Engalnd side in my lifetime so don't think he can be stood alongside the greats such as Ball and Charlton or maybe even Robson and Gazza.

As for moving to a top international side, about 3-4 years too late for this. I don't think a truely top side would have him now. He had his chances to move and fair play to him for being loyal but I think he'll look back on it as a mistake not to have gone in search of trophies after the C.L final in 05. It was never going to get better than that and it never did. Liverpool have been pretty much in the wilderness in the league since, barring one good campaign under Rafa, and have only won a couple of cups in the 7 years since.

Edit...please no Gerrard v Lampard comments!!

 

[The Ides of March]

Whilst Gerrard's loyalty to Liverpool is admirable, it is possible that he would have enriched his footballing knowledge as well as his life experiences at a different club. If he had gone abroad, he would have enriched not only his knowledge of the game, but learnt a new language and adapted to a new culture.

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

'Underachieving'?

You mean like like the hundreds of England players since '66 that haven't been good enough to win an international tournament?

Beckham for instance is 2nd in the all time list on 115 caps yet he won jack with/for England yet hes ahead of all of the world cup winners, the totals are tainted anyway because of the mix of friendly and home international games included for some players.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_England_international_footballers

Gerrard has been loyal to club and country and you can't ask for any more than that in the modern game, a 100 caps is a fantastic personal 'achievement' so good luck to the lad.

 

[CFC: Champs £launderx17]

Gerrard is a great player but rarely does the business in big games... Istanbul excepted. and Olympiakos and west ham if you call them big games.

2 goals in 35 games v Chelsea and four in 30 v United.

How many Liverpool fans does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Zero, they just sit around in the dark and talk about how good the old one used to be.

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

Gerrard is a great player but rarely does the business in big games... Istanbul excepted. and Olympiakos and west ham if you call them big games.

2 goals in 35 games v Chelsea and four in 30 v United.

How many Liverpool fans does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Zero, they just sit around in the dark and talk about how good the old one used to be.

Didn't Chelsea want to sign him a few years back?, and i recall Fergie saying he'd love him to sign for United but he knew it wasn't possible.

But of course you know more than Chelsea and United about how good Gerrard was.

 

[CFC: Champs £launderx17]

Didn't Chelsea want to sign him a few years back?, and i recall Fergie saying he'd love him to sign for United but he knew it wasn't possible.

But of course you know more than Chelsea and United about how good Gerrard was.

Great player. But tell me how many big games he has v Chelsea

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

Great player. But tell me how many big games he has v Chelsea

Your world evolves around Chelsea mate and fair enough but there's a bigger picture to consider when your talking about a players entire career.

Hasn't he played his part in every game v Chelsea hes started in which we've won?, or was he just sitting on the halfway line reading the paper?

Hes a midfielder so why put the emphasis on goals scored, he had more to his game than just goals in his prime.

 

[bluemoon2]

England certainly dont outclass sides the way they used to , but that has got more to do 1) with the sports growth in popularity around the world and 2)the highest ever proportion of non British players in the Prem. When England won the world cup in 1966, I cant think of a player in the 1st Division who came from outside the British Isles! Now , more than 50% are non-British. The ever reducing focus in schools on physical education these days will contribute to it going further backwards in the future!

 

[Yurilly]

In my opinion Steven Gerrard is the best English midfielder of the last decade as well as one of the world's best. I was too young to properly analyse the quality of individual players in the 90s and wasn't around before that so I couldn't compare him to them myself. At Liverpool he's been surrounded with mediocrity and at England, well, I struggle to find positives with the national side as a whole, but he has been one of its better players. It would have been very interesting to see how he would have fit into the Chelsea team and played alongside Frank Lampard under Jose Mourinho if the move in summer 2005 went through, but that is no more than a 'what if" scenario now.

Realistically speaking he's no longer going to win the Premier League or any other league for that matter, but he made that choice when he placed club loyalty above personal success. He will go down as one of the greats who failed to grasp it, but at least he won Liverpool's most memorable European Cup.

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

In my opinion Steven Gerrard is the best English midfielder of the last decade as well as one of the world's best. I was too young to properly analyse the quality of individual players in the 90s and wasn't around before that so I couldn't compare him to them myself. At Liverpool he's been surrounded with mediocrity and at England, well, I struggle to find positives with the national side as a whole, but he has been one of its better players. It would have been very interesting to see how he would have fit into the Chelsea team and played alongside Frank Lampard under Jose Mourinho if the move in summer 2005 went through, but that is no more than a 'what if" scenario now.

Realistically speaking he's no longer going to win the Premier League or any other league for that matter, but he made that choice when he placed club loyalty above personal success. He will go down as one of the greats who failed to grasp it, but at least he won Liverpool's most memorable European Cup.

A fair minded post Yurilly.

 

[CFC: Champs £launderx17]

In my opinion Steven Gerrard is the best English midfielder of the last decade as well as one of the world's best. I was too young to properly analyse the quality of individual players in the 90s and wasn't around before that so I couldn't compare him to them myself. At Liverpool he's been surrounded with mediocrity and at England, well, I struggle to find positives with the national side as a whole, but he has been one of its better players. It would have been very interesting to see how he would have fit into the Chelsea team and played alongside Frank Lampard under Jose Mourinho if the move in summer 2005 went through, but that is no more than a 'what if" scenario now.

Realistically speaking he's no longer going to win the Premier League or any other league for that matter, but he made that choice when he placed club loyalty above personal success. He will go down as one of the greats who failed to grasp it, but at least he won Liverpool's most memorable European Cup.

A great player but not in the class of Scholes. Could have become a world great under JM or SAF.

He nearly left for Chelsea twice, I think fear was the reason he stayed as well as club loyalty.

Very good player who teetered on world class but never quite made it like many of the so-called golden generation

 

[chelsea - over 100 years of history]

'Underachieving'?

You mean like like the hundreds of England players since '66 that haven't been good enough to win an international tournament?

Beckham for instance is 2nd in the all time list on 115 caps yet he won jack with/for England yet hes ahead of all of the world cup winners, the totals are tainted anyway because of the mix of friendly and home international games included for some players.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_England_international_footballers

Gerrard has been loyal to club and country and you can't ask for any more than that in the modern game, a 100 caps is a fantastic personal 'achievement' so good luck to the lad.

I say underachieving because the teams that had Rio, Terry, Gerrard, Cole, Cole, Lampard, Beckham, Rooney, Owen etc should have done a lot better than they did given their performances and honours at club level. They weren't called the 'golden generation' for nothing.

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

I say underachieving because the teams that had Rio, Terry, Gerrard, Cole, Cole, Lampard, Beckham, Rooney, Owen etc should have done a lot better than they did given their performances and honours at club level. They weren't called the 'golden generation' for nothing.

Fair enough mate, i was just pointing out how flawed the caps system is, in the past players have got a cap for coming on as sub for a couple of minutes.

 

[Master Yoda]

A great player but not in the class of Scholes. Could have become a world great under JM or SAF.

He nearly left for Chelsea twice, I think fear was the reason he stayed as well as club loyalty.

Very good player who teetered on world class but never quite made it like many of the so-called golden generation

If you don't think Gerrard was world class circa 05-09 then I really don't know what to say to you.

 

[King Ossie64]

I believe we have only used something like 350 players since 1966. When others have used many more, maybe there lies the answer?

 

[CFC: Champs £launderx17]

If you don't think Gerrard was world class circa 05-09 then I really don't know what to say to you.

World class is an overused word.

World class players win European Cups AND leagues regularly such as Zidane Platini Messi Ronaldo Ron 2 Gullit Van Basten Maldini Iniesta ....and some of the very exceptional ones inspire teams to win World Cups and European Championships too.

To be world class, you have to win your national league for a start!

Gazza could have been world class, Rooney maybe if he can inspire England one day; he has the club CV at least, which SG never had.

 

[Toela65]

You all know how many trophies and winners medals Gerrad has from Liverpool right?

Its a lot more than Lampard put it like that.

Off the top of my head counting he's won 13 major honours at Liverpool since the year 2001 and the only medal he is missing is the league, which very few players get.

I think he'll be pretty happy with his haul and when he becomes a Manager or Coach I'm confident he'll win most of his "bring your medals to work" days.

 

[Toela65]

A great player but not in the class of Scholes. Could have become a world great under JM or SAF.

He nearly left for Chelsea twice, I think fear was the reason he stayed as well as club loyalty.

Very good player who teetered on world class but never quite made it like many of the so-called golden generation

It was nothing to do with 'fear' thats just what bitter Chav fans tell themselves because they can't conceive of a quality player who would rather play for Liverpool than them.

Its easy to settle this though but you have to answer honestly.

If you were blessed enough to become the captain and most important player for the club you support since being a kid, so Chelsea in your lots instance, would you leave all that, especially when all your friends and family also all live there too.

Of course you wouldn't.

Gerrards still at Liverpool for the same reasons Le Tissier never left Southampton.

Oh, and he also turned Mourinho down again in 2010 when he rejected a £10m move to Real Madrid. Funnily enough a big factor in him turning that move down was Torres agreeing to stay at Liverpool the same Summer.

People who don't follow Liverpool, and hence haven't followed his career as closely, will never appreciate just how good a player he WAS in his pomp.

 

[Toela65]

In my opinion Steven Gerrard is the best English midfielder of the last decade as well as one of the world's best. I was too young to properly analyse the quality of individual players in the 90s and wasn't around before that so I couldn't compare him to them myself. At Liverpool he's been surrounded with mediocrity and at England, well, I struggle to find positives with the national side as a whole, but he has been one of its better players. It would have been very interesting to see how he would have fit into the Chelsea team and played alongside Frank Lampard under Jose Mourinho if the move in summer 2005 went through, but that is no more than a 'what if" scenario now.

Realistically speaking he's no longer going to win the Premier League or any other league for that matter, but he made that choice when he placed club loyalty above personal success. He will go down as one of the greats who failed to grasp it, but at least he won Liverpool's most memorable European Cup.

What a rare post.

Maybe you did watch a lot of Liverpool games 2000-2009.

Anybody who doesn't believe Gerrad was 'world class' at his best really doesn't know much about footy.

These people probably would claim though the Frank Lampard was 'world class'.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least.

He never got close to replicating his Liverpool form for England though. That much is true. In fact he's probably performed his best for England only since being made the Captain under Hodgson.

 

[Chelsea Pensioner]

All a bit too hard. Gerrard was certainly a very good player though a different midfielder than Iniesta, Gullitt etc. He had a dynamic touch to his play, like Essien at his top.
We'll never know how good he was or could have been, because he stayed put. The truly great players do it for several teams in their careers, Gerrard never did.
Do I think he could have performed on a world stage ??? Probably is the best I can do.
Would he have been a good buy for Chelsea ??? Without a doubt