Is it fair to challenge some of our players commitment?

[Flappy Flanagan (JK)]

This is how we currently play.


-----------------------Gain possession----------------------------
--------------------------------V------------------------------------
-----------------------Pass to Suarez------------------------------
--------------------------------V-------------------------------------
-----------------------Did Suarez score?---------------------------
-------------Yes--------------------------------No-------------------
----Continue to rely------------------------Start over again------
-----On Suarez------------------------------------------------------


Suarez is playing great at the moment. But with his goals alone we are not winning any matches.


We need more goals from the rest of the team. Sure, once we have added to our front line in January things could improve. But if we continue as we are until then we could be to far adrift to even look at a top 8 finish. Plus it will be a huge pressure on any new arrivals.


I feel our players need to look at them selves here and say 'How can I help improve our goal scoring situation'. They should be working on improving there own performances when attacking instead of just leaving things to Suarez. I know confidence is low, but I have seen players low in confidence still put in the effort. Look at Kuyt and Crouch early in their Liverpool careers. They work so hard despite having long periods with out goals and low confidence.

They should make an effort to get in the box and get in to good positions, when they get a tight of goal they should be focussed on getting the ball in it, when they see a forward run ahead of them they should look to pass and They should be adding numbers to our attack, as Suarez is often up there alone.

We see to much sideways passing when other options are on.

Is it fair to question some of our players commitment when it comes to scoring goals?

I am currently thinking it is.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Suarez has so much passion and desire to succeed. The coaches and teammates say that he gives 100% in matches AND in training. We've seen many times when we have internationals and he has to travel half way around the world but he comes back with the same level of intensity.

I remember when Kuyt was here and we used to say that 'anyone can run around for 90 mins - what we need are players who can do that and more'. Looking back at it, we need more Dirk Kuyts - constantly on the move, creating space, fighting to win the ball.

 

[Sir_Red]

Many of our players simply will never be good enough I fear, certainly never reach the same heights as Suarez. Imagine what Suarez could do with a team surrounding him all at his ability, ie Barca, he would be unstoppable I reckon

 

[Flappy Flanagan (JK)]

In defence I think it is a different story. We are seeing that commitment.

Glen Johnson has been as good as Suarez IMO.
Agger and Skrtel, despite a few mistakes, have now settled in to there stride.
Enrique has clearly worked really hard to put himself back in to the first 11 and has had to do a lot of adapting in order to do this.
Kelly has also performed very well.
Carragher will always give maximum commitment, even if he hasn't got the power he once had.
Lucas is king of the DM world.
Brad Jones has been a stand out performer lately, defying all the odds.

Our ball retention and style has improved a lot to.

But no one wants to put in the effort to attack and score goals apart from Suarez.

Maybe they are trying to avoid being the player who misses the key opportunity. But if that is the reason, that is not acceptable.

 

[Flappy Flanagan (JK)]

Many of our players simply will never be good enough I fear, certainly never reach the same heights as Suarez. Imagine what Suarez could do with a team surrounding him all at his ability, ie Barca, he would be unstoppable I reckon

Maybe thats right, maybe thats not.

But look at United and some of there players. Many will agree a lot of them dont look like world beaters, or are not at the same heights as Suarez, or in there case Rooney and Van Persie. But they have a strong winning mentality and commitment and it see's them keep in the title race every year.

Arsenal's team doesnt look much, if any better than ours on paper. But they keep in the top 4 year after year, even if its not in the prettiest of ways. They are off form atm, but they still must be favourites for 4th. That is again down to commitment and strong mentality.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Do you not think the players and coaches etc are already trying to rectify the goalscoring problem...?

 

[Flappy Flanagan (JK)]

Do you not think the players and coaches etc are already trying to rectify the goalscoring problem...?

Rodgers is on it. He is working on getting the wide forwards to make the right runs, which Sterling is starting to do more than Suso. But they dont get the right passes enough, and are still giving the ball to Suarez most.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Rodgers is on it. He is working on getting the wide forwards to make the right runs, which Sterling is starting to do more than Suso. But they dont get the right passes enough, and are still giving the ball to Suarez most.

I was getting your comment of...

I feel our players need to look at them selves here and say 'How can I help improve our goal scoring situation'. They should be working on improving there own performances when attacking instead of just leaving things to Suarez.

They are obviously working on this behind scenes

 

[Raheemthespeedmachine]

Suarez has so much passion and desire to succeed. The coaches and teammates say that he gives 100% in matches AND in training. We've seen many times when we have internationals and he has to travel half way around the world but he comes back with the same level of intensity.

I remember when Kuyt was here and we used to say that 'anyone can run around for 90 mins - what we need are players who can do that and more'. Looking back at it, we need more Dirk Kuyts - constantly on the move, creating space, fighting to win the ball.

I agree with that. Dirk Kuyt did his best work when he didn't have to think, if he thought about what he was going to do 9/10 times, he would miss. If he used his natural reactions, most of the the time called instinct, he scored goals. We've enough clever players, players with real game intelligence namely Shelvey, Suso, Suarez and Sterling, what we don't have is a natural reaction striker that uses instinct and reacts with little or no thought.

Personally I thought Fabio Borini was a reaction striker, one that shoots on sight with little or no thought. However he's got to develop his physical strength. Maybe he will become in what can only be described as a ''sniper''. I'm sure he can. We just need another one, its either that or a striker that sits on the shoulder of the last defender, when they move, they go in for the kill, similar to what Owen, Torres and Rush did.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

i'm not so sure.

there are two issues at hand.

1. total and utter lack of penetration. even glen hoddle can cal lthat on sky sports... even i can see it. until we get beyond suarez and into the box to score we are done. chelsea have torres but he's gash, so they've oscar, mata and hazard. we've gerrard simply got getting there, we've suso, assaidi and sterling and one are getting there.

2. we've guys like sahin who just can't cut it unfortunately. sahin has not done well physically i nthe prem. looks good but lightweight and chelsea bossed him. i am not sure if its ability or commitment.

 

[Foredeckdave]

I don't think that there's any problem with the commitment of the squad. The problem that we have is expecting players to take on roles that they are not experienced at in a side that is still trying to find it's own identity.

Rodgers was concerned that if he played Carroll then the midfield would seek to 'lump' balls up to him. However, we now have a situation in which the whole side is trying to play Suarez in!. This means that unless we find an open defence (Norwich of strangely Chelsea in the last 15 minutes) our misfield creativity is stifled for the want of an outlet.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

i agree mostly.

i see an awful lot of joe allen not having a pass when he take it in and going looking for one and getting cuaght with the ball.... an awful lot of back ans sideways passing.

I think also that dempsey was meant to play from the right side to get in there. Sterling is a big bonus but he's not making those runs and was far more comfortable out wide. His one goal was fro ma fast break when he get in behind.

suso is a midfielder, of that i'm sure, he's not a wide forward and should be playing the gerrard/sahin role.

we desperately need to sort out who's playing where and then add two forwards

i think we wanted borini on the left and dempsey on the right.. and it didn't work out for either player did it?

Downing is a particular disgrace and i hope rodgers does deal with him.

 

[Raheemthespeedmachine]

i agree mostly.

i see an awful lot of joe allen not having a pass when he take it in and going looking for one and getting cuaght with the ball.... an awful lot of back ans sideways passing.

I think also that dempsey was meant to play from the right side to get in there. Sterling is a big bonus but he's not making those runs and was far more comfortable out wide. His one goal was fro ma fast break when he get in behind.

suso is a midfielder, of that i'm sure, he's not a wide forward and should be playing the gerrard/sahin role.

we desperately need to sort out who's playing where and then add two forwards

i think we wanted borini on the left and dempsey on the right.. and it didn't work out for either player did it?

Downing is a particular disgrace and i hope rodgers does deal with him.

I agree with most of this.
What type of striker Brendan signs will determine where Suarez plays. If Brendan signs a sit on the shoulder of the last defender striker i.e. Daniel Sturridge, Suarez will play wide with the permission to drift, similar to the role Yossi Benayoun played. If Brendan signs a predator that does nothing until they get into the penalty area i.e. Klass Jan Huntelaar, Suarez will end up playing behind them, again with the permission to drift.

 

[Diego]

Not sure if you should question your players commitment or your managers system. Liverpools top scorer (striker) has eight goals, Uniteds top scorer (striker) has eight goals. The main difference is United have twelve other premier league scorers because our players have the freedom and will to get in the box and try!

 

[danilo.]

Suarez is basically the player we always wanted Kuyt to be, a workhorse + skill. Kuyt had the running part of it down, but his first touch was infuriating vs. the smaller teams. He definitely put 140 percent into every big match though.

If our current crop of players put in the same amount of effort as Kuyt did, we'd play Barca off the park. Unfortunately that won't happen with the likes of JC and SD in the squad.

A fair analyses into the positives and negatives into our squad would have to be something like this:

GK:

Reina is one of the best keepers in the world but lack of competition + club stagnation has obviously distracted him and he doesn't seem so secure.
Jones is alright, doing the best he can. His distribution is poor but his hearts in it and that saved us vs Chelsea.
Doni is missing. No really, he's missing.

DEF:

Wisdom is very intelligent and composed, physically strong and yet quite fast. However his inexperience shows when not surrounded by support.
Enrique is very skilled with his feet, composed, and good in offense, but loses the ball too often and gets caught out a lot (tracks back well though).
Johnson is talented but has been played in various positions. His weakness is that he is very inaccurate while shooting the ball from a distance.
Agger is world class but when he's relied upon to do absolutely everything he can have momental lapses in concentration.
Skrtel is an enforcer, good at tackling and clearing, as well as reading players. However he isn't as refined as Agger and can give away fouls.
Kelly is strong in the air and with the ball, as well as running forward. However he is super injury prone.
Carragher has been a faithful servant, is very smart in the game but is slow and is not going to get any younger. It's time to phase him out.
Coates has been a good presence, scored a great goal and knows how to defend, but his positioning has been slightly in question.
Flanagan looked talented but got slated a lot and looks shot of confidence. He's young though so he'll pick up.

MID:

Sahin is super talented, but doesn't run enough (he's also played out of position, as are all our midfielders).
Henderson is the most technically gifted English youth I've seen in a very long time but his confidence is shot + once again played out of position.
Shelvey is a dynamo, a running machine, but his game intelligence/finesse can be questioned.
Gerrard is still talented as ever, but has been played out of position for so long that we're not sure where he used to play (AM? RM? CM? DM? Who knows?).
Allen is extremely accurate and composed but is NOT a DM, where he's overrun due to his size and speed.
Lucas is the exception but is injury prone lately.
Suso is calm on the ball, makes good runs, is skillful and a good passer, but is inexperienced and can sometimes fade away.

Cole and Downing don't deserve to be compared.

FWD:

Suarez is skilled, fast, and incredibly aware of the game around him. No negatives although his finishing can improve.
Borini moves well without the ball, knows good positioning and passing, but he isn't scoring/shooting enough.
Sterling is quick and skillful but unless he plays off the shoulder of the last defender, he is contained due to his size.
Assaidi is skillfull but has faded out during a match (not connecting well with teammates).
Pacheco is similar to Suarez in terms of dribbling/game intelligence but is weak physically, shot mentally and doesn't really play.

Out of all of these we can question only Downing, Cole, and Doni's commitment. They cannot be salvaged.
Sahin and Allen also can be told that they should focus a bit and put some more effort in, but they're not beyond repair by a long shot.
Henderson, Assaidi, Pacheco, Flanagan, and Shelvey lack confidence and tutoring from senior members, not commitment. They can be salvaged.

As we can see we have some very good players here that with the right coaching can fix all of these mistakes. A winning mentality is absolutely necessary and is what will return these players confidence. However during a trial by fire you learn the basics and not the fine tuned skills that turn you into a world class player. Hopefully Rodgers can work some wonders and restore a winning mentality, which starts this weekend. The more wins we get the better our squad will be. It's now up to everyone involved to start grinding out some wins by learning not to play hoofball to Suarez.

 

[Page_Moss_Kopite]

The main difference is United have twelve other premier league scorers because our players have the freedom and will to get in the box and try!

Agreed, Howard Webb is the stand out among them.

 

[Lucaaas]

No. Not by results anyway. We aren't scoring goals due to the fact we have really inexperienced attacking players (bar Suarez) in Suso & Sterling starting every week due to the owners lack of investment in the summer.

Dempsey would've made a huge difference in that sense, as he knows where & when to be in the box unlike Suso & Sterling ATM.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

No. Not by results anyway. We aren't scoring goals due to the fact we have really inexperienced attacking players (bar Suarez) in Suso & Sterling starting every week due to the owners lack of investment in the summer.

Dempsey would've made a huge difference in that sense, as he knows where & when to be in the box unlike Suso & Sterling ATM.

Even then, Suarez is still 25 and he's still learning and developing!

I'm not sure Dempsey would have been the answer to our problem but I hear what you're saying - we need that experience, wiley player who has the natural instinct of getting into the right positions and the right times.

 

[antidistinctlyminty (ADM)]

suarez has so much passion and desire to succeed. The coaches and teammates say that he gives 100% in matches and in training. We've seen many times when we have internationals and he has to travel half way around the world but he comes back with the same level of intensity.

I remember when kuyt was here and we used to say that 'anyone can run around for 90 mins - what we need are players who can do that and more'. Looking back at it, we need more dirk kuyts - constantly on the move, creating space, fighting to win the ball.

they used to say anyone can run around for ninety minutes - but very few actually do

love the effort suarez puts in chasing lost causes and putting defenders under pressure - he said recently that he could not understand any player going on to a pitch and not making the most of every second

still thank god that we have him and not torres (the incredible sulk mark 2)

 

[antidistinctlyminty (ADM)]

not sure if you should question your players commitment or your managers system. Liverpools top scorer (striker) has eight goals, uniteds top scorer (striker) has eight goals. The main difference is united have twelve other premier league scorers because our players have the freedom and will to get in the box and try!

united also have the benefit of being given penalties simply by running in to the penalty area and falling over - not so much lately as young has been out injured (someone said he was suffering from the bends)