I'm not arguing that you can't have an opinion. You are entitled to state that if we lose the next 2 games Adkins should go. All I argue is that you can't talk of stability at the same time as talking about a change at the top and I find it amazing you can state you will chant his name yet want him saked if the next 2 games don't go our way. Puzzles me. Those who chant his name should be fully behind Adkins and the team. Those whose support of Adkins depends on the nxt 2,3,4 results should not be singing his name. they can show thir support for the club in all the other chanting. Palace are as above. They've got new investment, they've got a great academy which they have been using for a while in the first team. Remember when we played them away last year how many of their players were from their academy. It's good to see. I agree we bought the L1. That is one reason Pardew HAD to go. He failed. Adkins didn't!!! 22nd place to 1 point behind the leaders is very good going expecially considering how we had to keep pushing with huddersfield on our backs. I sort of agree with your NPC summary however whilst we did have a good start I don't think it was all down to momentum. We had a good squad for that league, didn't really strengthen it in the January and that coupled with the 'surprise factor' in the early games oppositions set their stalls out to counter our strengths. Happens in all leagues that. WE did limp over the line and yes our defence looked very shaky. However far from being an Adkins at all costs. I think he should be given the chance. Like I say I don't buy the 'survive' at all costs theory and Guardiola is not going to come here. Other new resports describing Di Canio or any other similar manager are laughable. Can't say Adkins is 'out of his depth' and then replace him with a manager of a L1 club. So Nigel is the best option. ONE NIGEL ADKINS. Sorry to bore you with my passion for Saints.
Ranieri built the Mourinho Chelsea side taking it to second in the league. Plays good football. Benitexz is one of the most boring managers out there playing very defensive football. I don't assume that we have to bring the youngsters through immediately. They should come through when they are ready and when they are good enough. That is a long term plan. I am not one of those who hears we want tobe Cahmpions League and takes it as gospel. Would be nice but reality ??? Let's hope with a bit of realism thrown in. I don't buy the 'break in the vision' part though. I think the stall was set out, the plan is probably for 10 years or 15 years total. I think we should continue on the path not divert away 'for a couple of season' intending to return. That could actually set the plan back many many more years. Could even see those academy players that may have come through lose heart and walk away leaving us having to start again. I think we have laid the lower foundations. We should finish those foundations and then build the house, not move elsewhere and say we'll continue with the house in a few years time. In 2 years time those foundation blocks may well be unusable at which point we have to dig them out and start again.
Defensive football...never thought those words would sound so good...like having sweet nothings whispered in your ear.
Perhaps he does play defensive football but Benitez wins trophies and, on the whole, Ranieri doesn't. He did build (although buy might be a more appropriate word) a good side at Chelsea and finished second, but as you say Mourinho won the league with essentially the same team. A direct comparison between the two would be Valencia, who won La Liga under Benitez in 2004. Benitez then left for Liverpool and Ranieri took over before being sacked in February 2005 with the club in 6th. Playing "good football" may be important to some fans but it's secondary to the club, winning games is far more important. I'd also say that all the Liverpool fans I know look back on the "boring", winning football of the Benitez years with far more fondness than the football of the Spice Boys era when they were pretty but ineffective. I probably worded that poorly. I meant that you see developing youngsters as an immediate priority, which I don't. I can just about believe Southampton can be playing European football eventually (not necessarily regular appearances in the Champions League, but perhaps an Everton or Spurs level), it's the 50% of the first team bit I find hard to see happening. Apart from the current Barcelona team and the freakish Man Utd side after they produced Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Butt and the Nevilles I can't think of anyone that's done it before and Man Utd certainly haven't maintained it - their current team isn't exactly studded with home-grown gems. True, if we're in the Premier League and the youngsters don't play they may get frustrated and leave. The problem is, if we get relegated and continue developing young players then they almost certainly will do what Bale, Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain did - play for the Southampton first team for a season or so and then leave for a bigger club. Being in the Premier League also generates revenue to help maintain and develop the Academy. If we drop back into the Championship we become more reliant on Liebherr money and nobody knows how long that will remain available to the club. The first team is the heart of the club and it's easier to get to where Everton and Spurs are from, say, Sunderland's current position as a club than to get there from where Crystal Palace are. We made the mistake of neglecting first team performances under Lowe and paid the price. We'd be foolish to make it again. I believe Nigel Adkins has the ability to turn things around and keep the team in the mix until we can strengthen in January but he has to start getting results or I'm afraid it's time for someone else to take charge. Obviously we don't know what he's like in the dressing room but if he's as positive and upbeat with the players as he is in interviews perhaps he needs to try a different, more "Ferguson hairdryer" approach (particularly with the defence) and tell them to get their act together.
Yes I see the philiosophy an immediate priority but I am not saying that we should be pushing them into the first team ASAP. This is not a return to the Portaloo era. They should be in when ready for it, when good enough and IF good enough. I don't understand why you can't see it happening. We already have Lallana there who IS good enough. We already have JWP that is proving he is either good enough or very close and in a few years he definitely will be good enough. We have Reeves who is very close to the first team and again in a few years could well be a permanent fixture. Then we have Shaw who may well get his first start tomorrow. He is another that we already know is likely to be first team. In effect we already have a potential 4/11 towards that philosphy. We could easily have those 4 and no more come through in 2-3 years time, however I would suspect at least 1 more academy player would step up with them and no I don't think these 4 should all be first teamers now, just that they probably will be in the nxt 2-3 years. That would make 5/11 which is close enough to 50% for me to say that this philosophy is achievable in principle and in the very near future. This is the foundation that should be built on. Alex Ferguson's 'you'll never win with kids' team was pretty similar however that then presents another problem. Those 'kids' came through with ManU in their mindset. They stayed oyal and unfortunately the next generation of youngsters that could have come through had to leave to get football. The same would likely happen to us if say in 3-4 years we had 6-10 players in the 25 man squad from our own academy. Those behind them in the academy would then find it hard to get in. As for leaving us like others have....How many of those academy players who 'decided to leave' pushed for the transfer themself? How many would have stayed if they hadn't been told they needed to go? I think it is vital that we have a manager in position that is prerpared to stick to that philospophy whether it be Adkins or someone else and it is no good to put the plan aside for a little time to achieve short term goals because if we deviate from that plan we will not return to it. The Liebherr's will never put the amount into the club needed to achieve europe as Totenham or EVerton. That is for sure and seeing as Everton are seen as frugal that is saying something. Copared to us Everton are high spenders yet their fans want Kenright, the man who has kept them afloat while trying to achieve something, out of position. They say heis holding them back. If we get to that level and needing uber amounts to make the next step, will be chanting 'Cortese out' or 'Liebherr's out'? I hope not and that is why it is key to make England's best academy work in our favour and key to that is maintaining a manager that wants to buy into that mantra, whether Adkins or someone else.
I guess I just don't understand the fear over relegation. Everyone seems to be complaining that we brought all these young creative players instead of veteran defenders. And yes that has hurts Saints in the short run. But in the long run it means we have cheap young players who can be sold for decent profit or who will grow experienced with the club. Saints are about as well positioned for the drop as any team could possibly be. Four years of gigantic parachute payments, a young core whose skills and value should grow, a Category 1 academy, and what appears to be solid financial footing. Where is the problem?
Indeed, People keep saying our best academy players will go. Only if they want to or are pushed. I can't see Shaw, JWP or Reeves demanding their £2k a week trainee salary be increased to '£50k a week or I'm off' like Sterling at Liverpool (or his agents) is reported to be insisting on.
Sorry for the long delay in responding. Fine. I get that now and, generally speaking, I agree. I don't see it happening because there are only two teams I can think of who've been able to get close to doing that and both of them were already established title contenders when those sides came together. Of the 4 players named there, I'm sorry but I don't see Adam Lallana as a first choice player in a top 6 team. He's not particularly big, strong or quick for starters and I don't think he's good enough in other ways to make up for those deficiencies. Shaw, JWP and Reeves all have potential but, as they say in the USA, potential and 50 cents will get you a cup of coffee. They may or may not step up. I hope they do but they're currently on the fringes of a team in a relegation dogfight, you can't say they will definitely develop into players good enough to play in a team challenging for Europe. It's a completely different situation. I've just mentioned this in a separate thread but when they first came into the side Ferguson's kids had established players alongside them like Schmeichel, Bruce, Pallister, Irwin and Cantona. We have very few experienced players (by that I mean 28 and older) and those we DO have generally aren't good enough for the Premier League. The Man Utd kids also came into the biggest team in the league, any move they made would have been a step down. There are plenty of bigger teams than Southampton offering higher wages and more chances to win trophies, and that is even more true if Southampton are in the Championship. Well Surman is the only one I can think of who wanted to stay and went purely because we needed the money. Others (Nile Ranger and Nathan Dyer for example) went because we didn't think they were good enough and/or wanted rid of them but how many of them are playing in top teams now? I'm pretty sure Bridge, Walcott and Oxo went because we received large offers for them and they expressed a preference to leave. Bale I don't remember so well but I think it was similar to the other three. There's a perfect example waiting to happen in the current team. There have been stories about Arsenal and Chelsea scouting Luke Shaw for a couple of years now. He looks likely to get quite a few games this season and, assuming he does well, if we go down I would expect concrete interest from the bigger clubs, and I would expect him to move on. Well I think it's vital we stay in the Premier League. You simply can't know that if we deviate from the plan we won't come back to it. If Southampton got to an Everton/Spurs level under Cortese and the Liebherrs then I would be amazed to see fans campaigning for Cortese or the Liebherrs to go. Most of the fans have shown tremendous loyalty to Nigel Adkins and there's no reason to think they would want the chairman to go. Sadly that's not a problem we seem likely to have any time soon.
Wow there fellas (and Fran).......I have been reading the posts and it strikes me that we have too separate discussions under the one heading. The original Poster was asking really about how would we feel, as we like Adkins so much, if it is best to bring in another manager to move us on to the next level as results do not seem to be going very well? (At least that is how I am reading it) The second point is as someone else mentioned is whether this would cause too much instability. This is a very good point and is a strong argument against changing the manager. However for what ever reason Nigel is not getting the results at least for now. So the question is should we change the manager or wait in the hope he gets it right. Or do we go against our heart and listen to our head? The next question should then be if we change the manager is it going to cause too much instability? Would it have the opposite effect that we would want on the players? Either way there is no Guarantee of success...... If there was it would be a no brainer either way. In my opinion changing the manager is not an early option, not because I have a particular liking for Nigel or Cortese for that matter. Or that it might cause instability. It is because I cannot honestly think of anyone that could do anything better than Nigel can with the players he has. So stick with him is my best advice!!!!
Before I reply to the OP, I just want to reply to this particular post Godders. My dear old mum worked for both Woodford and Askham. She was "raised proper", never has a bad word to say about anyone and deems profanity to be wholly unnecessary and a sign of a diminished intellect. She describes Askham as a "****ing weasel".
A few points. 1. I'm quite tired of hearing about how we limped over the line last year. This simply isn't the case. We did surrender the title by not quite matching Reading's extraordinary run but we won 10 of our last 15 matches for Pete's sake! 2. Just because the TV revenue in the PL increases next year it doesn't mean that the structure of the game is changing. Three teams will still be promoted from the Championship every year to take a share of those spoils. As the teams relegated into the Championship will still benefit from parachute payments, nothing changes. The PL will still be the Holy Grail for most fans (and all Chairmen) but nothing happening next year will make it more difficult for any club to reach the PL (including us if we should go down). 3. I don't think it's unreasonable for a passionate fan to take a view of their club and all of it's staff on the current season's results alone. I don't agree but I don't think it's unreasonable. If you care deeply about something, it's awfully hard to watch it struggle. The content of this post is entirely different to the drivel you know who used to spout! 4. I made a thread recently about what you would do if you were NC right now. It turned out to be the least popular thread ever posted with a grand total of zero replies but in it I stated that stability was absolutely crucial. Of course I still believe that and want NA to stay on indefinitely. However, at what point do poor results themselves become destabilising? 5. Benitez over Ranieri all day long for me.
Christ this made me laugh ! I was just imagining your Mum telling you this ! Well this is the best type of intelligence that you can get on a person - from somebody who actually worked with and knew them. Interesting to hear this report about Askham.
