Are people still going to defend Pardew after the shower of sh*t we served up today?

I don't feel it's over the top mate, he's made a lot of false promises of late, add to that the poor performances this season and the slightly below average results (the results haven't been as bad as the performances). You also then have the statistic of never winning after conceding first under Pardew is particularly alarming.

I'd say he's deserving of a bit of criticism (but definitely not deserving of the sack).

 

His tactics deserve a bit of criticism, but the players deserve a lot more criticism... can't always blame the manager

 

Disagree with this purely because a long ball game does not suit Cabaye, Ben Arfa & Cisse, our tactics are minimising the impact these three can have on the pitch and Pardew chooses the tactics.

I agree the players are also to blame, like when Williamson played the awful pass to Taylor and Carroll nipped in and nearly scored, that ain't Pardew's fault, he can do nothing about individual errors, but when it comes to the style of play the buck always stops with the gaffer.

 

fair enough, i do think the style of play was completely wrong, but even when we have played 4-3-3 this season we haven't been that great so it does show the players aren't stepping up either.

id say our only players that have performed this season are Ben Arfa, Cabaye ( i wasn't on about him when i said the players deserve the blame), Ba, Coloccini and Santon. Maybe Saylor but hes been in and out of the team

 

Santon has been our best player this year closely followed by Ba I reckon. I'm only so frustrated because I know we have the makings of a really good team, so I suppose there's a positive in there somewhere!

 

I agree Pardew needs to change things - that's his job as manager BUT the players are ultimately responsible for this particular loss...Todays tactics were clearly to utilise the wings - we played plenty of balls into the box, but (be it poor delivery or poor movement from the strikers) we didn't get on the end of them.

Cisse's off the ball running is god awful and him and Ba look like they've never met! This is something Pardew needs to look at 'cause we're 11 games in, we can't just keep 'hoping the partnership comes good'!

 

We need to make a decision of what formation to use and stick by it, if it means dropping Cisse then so be it... once settled hopefully our players will be back to normal!

 

Personally I think we easily should have won today. We just lacked a killer ball or chance to put it away. Compare the number of saves Jaaskeleinen made compared to Krul. Personally, I think Jonas is completely past it. He's lost his pace to beat players, and he doesn't have either the strength or the creative ability to play in the middle. Williamson has no composure at all, and consistently smashes the ball long every time he gets it. Fergie looked a bit out of his depth, Ben Arfa is now a marked man by any opposition we face. He doesn't even get the chance to get the ball moving before he's surrounded.

On the plus side, Santon is ever improving, and I thought we looked better today when Anita replaced Jonas. Cisse at least looked as though he was trying to score, and probably would have if Fergies cross wasn't cleared right off his diving head. We used our wings and delivered a lot more crosses, just we failed to get anyone into the box to make a chance out of them.

 

Have I missed something, but when we talk about playing 4,3,3 Ba is always forced out wide...Why not Cisse with Ba through the middle? Cisse's straight runs are shocking, putting him out wide would give him the opportunity to arch his movement and stay onside!

 

His off the ball movement is horrific, early on in the game Ben Arfa had the ball running at their back four, and Cisse ran straight, didn't bend his run or pull off the shoulder of the defender, he was three yards offside so Ben Arfa had to play it to Ba who was in a worse position.

 

Then wouldn't a wider position offer him an easier role in terms of timing runs? Surely running into clear channels is easier than creating space by splitting centre backs?

 

Yes pal, I was agreeing with you but felt the need to emphasise the point about just how bad his movement is

 

Could do with mentioning it again to be honest!

 

I'm gutted that he has lost form. It's like chalk and cheese from the player we had last season. The only positive is that we have seen first hand what he is capable of. We had a system last season that seemed to fit everyone in the team except ba although we would of never knew it had he not mentioned it because he did a chracking job on the left. I'm not saying I would move ba out there again but I would certainly revert back to that system and drop cisse and use him as a second half sub for ba in the same system. Reason being he got his goals last year from that position but as ba is our goal scorer at the minute, we can't move him from a central starting role.

 

Or does it show that you don't go behind that often, which is obviously a sign of how solid you've been under him and how well he's set you up in most games.

 

I thought we played well against Liverpool. Soaked up their pressure and then play some decent stuff. One lapse of concentration and moment of red mist shouldn't drag the whole's performance down.

I think our main problem are legs in midfield. Is Gosling, Raylor, Perch and Tiote were all available we wouldn't have to rely on Jonas and Cabaye doing all the running. Why isn't Romain Amalfitano getting games?

 

That's easy, cos he sucks. Not a knock on him , but he isn't the finished article, or even close to the level Sammy or Ferguson are at now, and that's on the fringes. The few times he had playing time(Europa League) he looked awful.

 

I'll defend him. I don't think we can pretend that what was served up yesterday has been standard fare all season. We have not been at our electric best, but we have been solid and played well in patches. No excuses for yesterday, we were just rank. People will point to the Europa etc but it really isn't an excuse for me. The players and Pardew need to have a sit down and say that is unacceptable. But lets not pretend we didn't throw in the odd one like yesterday last season. We threw in a lot worse at times (Fulham away 2nd half? Spurs away?)

We have missed a golden opportunity yesterday and its not about blaming Pardew. its a collective responsibility between him, his staff and the players. We haven't been great this season but I thought we'd laid a good platform to kick on from before yesterday. I have to say some of the comments I've read on this board last night and this morning make me laugh. You'd think we were playing like Sunderland!! It was a disappointing afternoon and the lack of quality was hugely disappointing. We do need to keep things in perspective though and keep behind the team. Cabaye and Benni in particular were shocking. I hope Cabaye is not going to repeat last years problem and stop playing when the cold weather arrives.

We just need to dust ourselves off and start performing. Obviously Pardew and the coaching staff have work to do but the players need to take on some of the responsibility if we are to end up where we and they want to.

 

Personally I also think the time has come for Benni to be pushed up top with Ba until Cisse sorts himself out. Even playing Obertan ahead of Cisse at the moment would be preferable which I think sums up where he is at present.

 

Did you manage to get to the game yesterday WP or were you following through the media?