Italy today 29 October 2012. The state should not permit this, it should be illegal and is a disgrace. http://video.repubblica.it/edizione...lla-marcia-su-roma/109130?video=&ref=HRESS-10 Vergogna.
Disgrace, In Croatia they have singers that promote fascism and folks that go to their concerts wear fascist clothes. In Bosnia we have chetniks, even one man took a photo of himself burning Qur'an at Bairam and posted it on facebook. So much hate on Balkan. @ DT3 you need a brain transplant.
Bairam = Eid? Croatia has major fascist history, wasn't Boban's family war criminals or something? It amazes me that Di Canio is allowed to manage a football club here, even in Italy he would be shunned for the filth he is.
Agree on Fascism, Chetniks and so on. Frightening for the lack of humanity involved in their 'thinking'. However, for the benefit of the majority discussing why a generalisation about African discipline on the football field in the UK might be considered racist, we're at risk of wandering off topic here. Shall we proceed or is it time to close the thread at this point?
Nigeria managed to win the Olympic Football something some much lauded European nations haven't managed. That takes discipline. Plenty of "Under" tournaments too. Even The Gambia with a similar population to Birmingham has managed that.
I'd hope you can keep it open - everything that is good about reason and understanding outweighing sensationalism and naivety have been shown. It's been an eye opener for me and challenged a few of my subconscious thought processes (what the brain chooses to pick up and interpret) plus your very brilliant post on the concept and place of racism as it's defined got me self-analysing. It'd be a shame if people can't be trusted to join in at the stage the thread has got to without dragging it back to the initial tension. A natural conclusion and an open thread drifting down the board would be a better testament to the maturity of the forum.
Yes in Bosnia we use Bairam as a result of long term Turkish reign in our country and also a lot of other words. Yes I do believe Boban was Ustasha although I'm too young to know form first hand, I've read about it somewhere.
Heh, I guessed good, a very late Eid Mubarak to you As for Boban he played for Milan which was a crime for starters!
Eid Mubarak to you too mate. All the best. As for Milan you got that right. Have been doing some research yes he was/is ustasha.
Morning Good post Matt. If we want to carry this on, like i said...I'm open to it? Lets start with this one shall we... 1. Is it possible to be racist and not predudiced ...or the other way round? Discuss. PS. Also impressed with Brix's posts on this
Evening Queens. I think it's possible to be both racist and not prejudice and also the reverse. By Brix's definition, I'd be racist (can't believe I can actually say that) because I accept certain differences in race as a generality (there are of course exceptions). Black men make better sprinters and white men can't jump if the film is to be believed. You get my point though. I absolutely cannot accept differences in mental ability since I'd deem that more of a result of privilege and nurture - certainly I've not experienced anything to convince me otherwise. I am also prejudice to a degree about people I see. This manifests itself more as a generalisation of the more familiar white people in my case (appearance of teenagers in tracksuits with kids for example). I do, however, treat everyone on their merits should I speak to them as individuals and irrespective of appearance. Sadly, I don't paint a very nice picture of myself do I but strangely think of myself as tolerant and nice, liberal and fair. I'm starting to doubt myself on those last points today...
My own son is a Milan supporter, a disgrace on the family, he was born and lived lived the first 20 years of his life less than 2km from Fiorentina's ground.
In response to you Matt, Personally i treat EVERYBODY the same way. I learned a long time ago that it is the best policy. I obviously come into contact with people i dont like but it is never because of race or skin colour. Like i said, i have friends (mainly Chelski fans) that are racist to the extreme, but because of my nature (and size & attitude i suspect!) they are not racist towards me...openly? Obviously white men cant jump, sprint or even be any good in the bedroom but you do have some good qualities. Your good at rowing, cycling and...erm....?! (joking) Of course racism and predudice happens to come from all races. Im sure Imaz will happily agree that the chances of white christians building a $2M church in the middle east and imposing western values on a muslim majority..would never be allowed to happen. is that racism from that population? Just re-reading this post before sending and it sounds terrible. Appologies Imaz if i sound offencive and also appol to all you white christian cyclists and rowers !! But seriously, i think the generally accepted stance is that racism (as per sexism) has no productive place in todays modern society. I'll tel you something i have only ever told a few people..(so keep it a secret!). One of the main reasons I left England is because, at the time, i believed it was the most racist country I have ever lived in. Still seen nothing to change that view. Taking into account that i have lived all over the globe. I've been to france, Italy and most of the other "alledged" racist places, but I felt so uncomfortable in my own country that dreaded my kids having to grow up in that enviroment. I just wanted them to have an equal chance and opportunit that i was never afforded. Dont get me wrong, I'm proudly English (not British or European) but i really dont care if I ever set foot in the country again. The only thing that keeps me tied to England is my familyAND QPR..Thats it! This should be the point where Col jumps in and argues with swords about the "little Englander mentality"...blah blah blah... Anyway, back on topic. It intresting that you can analyse yourself like you have and see your good and bad. That means you are honest and open and "would appear" to be a decent person. Like i said previous, its the people who cannot see thier failings that cause the problems..god knows..i've made plenty of them ! good to talk to you pal..keep the faith i (hope) believe we will turn the corner soon.. As for Igor, I hope he stays and i have appologised to him personally. Hope he accepts it !
I believe we all have elements of racism in us . I was fishing in Sussex on Sunday and found a rod rest out in the wild ... I pulled it out of the ground to find it had a length of line attached with baited hooks ****ing Polish I ranted to my mate who agreed we would sort the ****er right out if he had turned up . we then thought about it and realized we had no evidence about the blokes race and it's only because eastern Europeans are stealing fish from our rivers for stews we slagged off the poles. We were wrong At one bridge on the river we came across a load of copper pipe insulation chucked in the river possibly from a raid ... ****ing pikeys they balled yet I can't as my roots are gypsy. we then agreed we again had no idea about the crime ... We fished it out and sorted it . I think maybe the world needs racism at times ... It will never go away it's not acceptable to me yet I was guilty just yesterday it's automatic at times
So what your saying is that you are a racist pikie with a van load of copper you wanna sell then? How much do you want for it ?
Great post from a great mind. You shouldn't doubt yourself though Matty - cos you're smack on the money with your baseline thinking. It's human to see things from our own angle - as long as we know it and don't assume we're the centre of the universe (whoever we happen to be). If we're aware of our natural default to think of ourselves as 'normal' and that other races, genders, sexualities etc. are not, then it's not the biggest step in the world to modify our thinking and actions in such a way as not to cause offence to other types of people. Tbh, most on here and most in this society either consciously or unconsciously achieve this every day. Every once in a while we slip up with an assumption or similar about about others that embarrasses us to the extent of feeling a need to defend ourselves against an 'accusation' of, say, racism. That invariably ends up with us digging an ever deeper hole for ourselves. (Doh... the number of times I've done that!) The thing is taking a defensive stance just makes the situation all the worse. The offended party ends up having to manage our feelings before their own... Much easier and better simply to apologise for our momentary ignorance and move on. No cred lost and a whole lot gained from my experience. These things became clearer to me when I started read books like 'A Rap on Race' by James Baldwin and Margaret Mead in the 70s. Talk can be cheap but also very helpful at times. So why does the whole focus appear to fall upon white people? It doesn't actually, everyone's at it one way or another, and everywhere. Why? Cos it's a much smaller world these days and we rub up against each other more often. We're all just in the process of learning to share the planet and accommodate the various cultures we encounter (whether they're coming here or we're going there). And you know what? I'm particularly proud to be a Brit in that sense. We're a long way ahead on this level and it took us far less time than the Americans to get to where we're up to (apologies for my ignorance Americans, just kinda slipped out!). Mums can usually walk down the road over here without having to put up with ridicule and disrespect. How bad is that?! Not saying we're perfect but many from other places respect and appreciate what we've achieved in this way - and so should we. The humility to learn is a virtue not a crime.
Id just like to say that i hate white middle class people getting offended on behalf of others. I remember South Park introducing 2 disabled characters who had the piss taken out of them like the rest of the boys. The PC brigade went into overdrive until the disabled said they loved it because they were treated like everyone else and not some special case. and to keep it on topic, the lone black person is called Token Black which I find hilarious and so true.
Football needs to do more to encourage the Asian talent in this country IMO . I certainly think it a big sticking point and you have to ask why that is? It's because as much as we bury it the core s still rotten Queens £7:50 My uncle Ambrose only offered me £6 Seriously ask these folk about racism as it still seems the only acceptable form left . Yet these people, my people have suffered a history yet still laugh at it all ... Amazing people
