The Top teams in every league do seem to get the extra rub of the green from refs - none compared to Barca or R.Madrid though.
I don't think I am saying this due to lack of experience but I really feel that refereeing has taken a sharp nosedive in terms of quality, over the last couple of years. Am I the only one who feels this or would you say that it's always been this way?
It's one thing openly giving decisions to one side, I can just about give Clattenburg the benefit of the doubt. But if these allegations of racism are proven then the match surely has to be replayed. Shocking. No wonder John Obi Mikel was going berserk. Clattenburg should have sent him off instead of uttering a racial slur. Sad day for football. Man Utd should do what Arsenal did a few seasons ago and offer to replay the match. They'd go up in my estimation if they did so.
Why? Even if Clattenberg is a secret collector of Nazi memorabilia and spends his spare time hunting black people in a white hood you can't honestly believe decisions were biased because of race in a match where both teams have black players. As for United doing what Arsenal did, Arsenal did it because their player had done wrong. Wenger should have replayed that cup game at Brammall Lane as would have happened had that goal not gone in anyway. United, whatever you may think about them, aren't to blame.
There is no way a match official as high as Clattenburg would use a racist slur. I'm sure his assistants will back him up. It's a big case of sour grapes on Chelsea's part. They tried to cheat and got punished for it. They should have actually had two more players sent off. Luiz is even more of a liability than Barton, and Mikel should have been sent-off for foul and abusive language. Chelsea should be more concerned about the steward that nearly got crushed. This is why he had to roll over the boards.
Agree with Watford on the 2nd part. The fact is United have done nothing wrong, it's not their fault Clattenburg is a poor referee and the officials had an off day. I disagree on the 1st bit though. If (and in my eyes he's innocent until proven guilty) he has racially abused Mikel and made Xenophobic remarks to Mata then that instantly suggests bias to me, that's where I disagree with you Watford (for the first time ever lol) I can see Sku's point though in that if allegations are proven, that already suggests the ref had a premeditated bias towards United players and therefore renders the match itself corrupt. However it isn't United's fault. Whatever we may think of them there is no actual proof they have directly influenced officials so the game shouldn't be replayed. If the alleged is true I'd like a sincere apology from the PGMO, PFA, PL and FA or at least 2 of the 4 to put my mind at ease.
Who cheated? If Torres was fouled he had every right to go down. Perhaps he could have stayed on his feet we will never know but there was contact. Dermot Gallagher (ex-referee and staunch defender of his profession) has even told Clattenburg himself he believed it was a foul. You'd be left with 8 a side in most matches if every player was sent off for what Mikel did but it came as a result of poor refereeing decisions. Young was (rightly) given the benefit of the doubt when through on goal. Clattenburg couldn't have possibly seen the contact just as he couldn't possibly of seen the "non-contact" in the Torres incident. If Young was given the benefit of the doubt why wasn't Torres? Bear in mind Young's reputation for diving is as bad as any player's in England. All in all it was a game of horrifically biased refereeing in favour of one side, but I don't believe for a second Chelsea (in light of what has gone on with JT and the negative publicity that has surrounded the club) would want to drag up another race saga over 1 PL loss when we are still top anyway. If Mata and Mikel say they were abused I have no reason to believe they are lying. If Clattenburg has threatened the family of a business assossciate over a £60,000 debt I wouldn't put this beyond him but as far as I'm concerned until proven otherwise he is innocent.
So Man Utd should offer to replay the game because of something the ref did? Seriously, that is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. We all hate teams for various reasons but hating Man Utd and adding bribery and cheating to those reasons is stretching it a little far.
With regards to the red cards given to Chelsea - the linesman flagged to indicate a foul by Ivanovic, the linesman didn't flag for a foul on Torres, so technically you could say it was the linesman at fault for both red cards. Torres could have been sent-off for his first booking. Rooney was lucky not to see red though. If it turns out that Clattenburg has used a slur, then I will come on the CFC board and apologise.
Torres chose to go down, its diving and hes a cheat. It doesnt matter if it was a foul or not. Terry and chelsea have a proven history of lying about refs, see the other thread for proof.
My anger is not so much with the foul not being given it was the fact he simply guessed Torres had dived and as he did throughout the entire match, gave the benefit of the doubt to the United player. I don't often agree with Shearer but he is right when he's said many a time "if you book a player for diving you are saying he is a cheat". It was a big call to make in what was a massive game with Chelsea down to 10 men. That game could end up costing Chelsea the title or a top 4 place or it could indirectly end up costing City the title and giving it to United, either way it has changed the entire complexion of things at the top of the table, just as the Clint Hill v Bolton did at the bottom last season, thankfully justice was done in the end though
I don't agree. For me if there is contact a player has every right to go down. That's just the way it is now. There are very few challenges made in the modern game that can cause a player to completely lose his balance and go to ground. The game has become more continental in that aspect. I don't know what Terry and Cole have done or said but they aren't Chelsea FC, the complaint hasn't come from them it's come from two different players in an entirely separate incident. Evra once lied about being racially abused by a Chelsea Steward, when he claimed Suarez racially abused him at the time very few believed him however it's two entirely separate incidents. If a United player comes forward and claims he has been racially abused, I'd like to think he wouldn't be judged on the actions of another well over 6 years ago but that's just me.
Chelsea havent got a leg to stand on apart from asking for a 4 game suspension. If they ask for more then they are hypocrites, after all their captain has been found guilty of the same thing. I read he allegedly called Mata a "Spanish Twat", i have no idea what he supposedly called Mikel, I just watched the incident again and Mikel doesnt react at all.
My point exactly. And where does this premeditated bias originate from? Back to my point earlier about carrot and stick. Either the whole establishment fears Fergie (ala Armstrong and Savile) or worse still, there's some carrot there. Remember that this is multi billion pound industry; it's not implausible that this was driven by deep seated corruption, hidden away in a web of deceit with the fear of the whistleblower [excuse the pun] being smeared and discredited. Only now the press are asking why no one questioned Savile.... do we stand by in denial and wait until Fergie curls his toes up? I think this could just be the tip of the iceberg, perhaps Clattenburg has revealed a little tell that will expose the bigger deceit? Imagine the Liverpool response - ala Armstong and the TdF - when they strip United of their titles!
Your spot on Sku but unfortunately we can only deal with the facts. The fact is wherever there is money breeds corruption. The English media have focused on foreign leagues but a lot of us suspect things do go on here. Fergie is hugely influential, he assisted Tony Blair in the 1997 election, Blair who later recommended his Knighthood to the Queen. He has huge power not just in football but also politics. It's proven that referees that oversee a United defeat are demoted and don't often referee their games for at least 12 month. It's typical of English culture to place blind faith in our institutions. You'd have thought people would have learnt from Hillsborough. It's down to fear more than anything mate
It's far worse because Clattenburg is in a trusted position and a position of authority whereby he's expected to act with neutrality. Go and see how long judges get when they are proven to be corrupt or senior officials/Police Officers etc. I don't think Chelsea will ask for anything but if proven most likely wait and see what punishment is given. Two Wrongs don't make a right .
Corruption DL? Your owner is an infamous mafioso with blood on his hands. I'll take corruption and offside goals over that any day. I'd even take relegation to the conference over a scumbag owner like that too.
Bernard Madoff got away with his Ponzi scheme for over 25 years - so it's not remarkable for this kind of stuff to be going on. DL nails it when he speaks of the unconditional trust in institutions. There's something just not right about the whole situation. I think this whole thing could unravel very very soon with some interesting consequences.
