In addition to this, if a member of the minority goes against the mass, he is then seen as a traitor and almost 'pro racist'. For example, David James did an interview recently where he didn't think racism in England is that bad. Darren Lewis and Ollie Holt (terrible journo's at the Miror) then did an article saying how wrong DJ is and how insenstive his comments were! Coming from a minority myself, I can say that I've been on the receiving end of racial 'jibes'. I don't consider it worse then if someone called me fat or skinny etc etc. I just brush it off. But I would feel aggrieved if I was subjected to anything like the scenes in Serbia. Finally - a black only union is not the way forward. We need members of other faiths and races to stand up for others i.e. whites supporting blacks, vice versa, asian supporting whites etc etc.
What is the reason for these players wanting to splinter from the group and form their own union? Is it because they believe Terry's punishment is too lenient? If that is the case why don't they have a word with the FA, instead of trying to seperate themselves from players of other races.
Will there be a new 'Choc-ice' union for black players like ashley Cole, Glen Johnson and David james who don't toe the line of Rio X and his New Black Panthers? FFS, they get their knickers in a twist about selective cases, but when Rio breaks E3(2) "It's not racist, so there" and Robersts wades in on his side (as does Powar). Why don't they just have a charter that says the only racism that can exist is by white players on black players? And, when a real racial victimistimisation case such as this occurs:- http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ce-case-footballer-mark-mccammon-8031583.html They'd rather focus on high profile, overpaid Premier League stars like Anton and Evra who (in the case of evra) kick off the verbal and discrimatory insults themselves but cry 'racist' at the mention of anything that touches on the word 'black'. No reams of earnest newspaper colums and downright lazy, drunken assertions from the likes of Lawton, Samuel, Kelly and Holt for McCammon, no 'guest' appearance from Doreen Lawrence and chippy comments from Powar, Paul Mcgrath, clark carlisle and the ludicrous Luther ****ing Blisset. This, an abject, despicable and REAL case of racism and discrimination that truly affected a guy's whole life (and, as a union rep who's been involved in such cases, you - and I - have no real appreciation of how a human being truly suffers in these situations ) doesn't have the kudos and 'look at me' factor of the Terry and Suarez cases. So, Rio, by all means protest that Kick It Out doesn't do enough - it doesn't, and nor does the FA. If they did, you'd have been banned and a lot more fuss would have been made over the Mcgannon case than that of Terry's.
Another reason this might end up embarrassing: I assume since Rio appears to be one of the possible poster boys; the "black Union" actually means black & mixed race union? So Luis Suarez would have as much right to join as Rio Ferdinand yes? So how would the union have represented Suarez in his case if it had been in existence then? Would the black lawyers association (who appear to be willing partners in this enterprise) have put the full weight of its lawyers in support of Suarez during the tribunal? Since until a guilty verdict; as a union member he would have expected full cooperation & legal help his union could provide. A hypothetical: what if this union born out a need for greater action against racism has to represent a case where a black player is accused under 3a of calling say for example Park a "gook" or "yellow ****" and their player is found guilty by the FA. Is that player chucked out of the union as they represent everything the union stands against?
My posts probably do not explain in enough detail where I am coming from. I do not think I see prejudice where it does not exist. I think I know where you are coming from and you are one of the posters whose views I respect (if that does not sound too patronising). The whole issue of race is very complex. If society is itself prejudiced, how can football be immune from it? In fact football has been a force for changing attitudes towards black people in recent decades. However having said that, I think there are still lots of progress to be made. It would be silly of me not recognise that we have made massive strides in this country. Do you remember when the first black players were recruited into the big clubs? the abuse that they got at all grounds would today make you hold your head in shame. There is no doubt in my mind that there is an issue to be addressed. By the way I include asians, indians, mixed, and other non- white in the "black" denomination. In the last 10 20 yeasr we have had large number of very good black players in the top divisons and some have retired and some have wanted to remain involved in football. Far from having no evidence, we do have evidence that ex-black players with coaching badges are less likely to get a coaching job in a club. Forget for a moment the top post i.e the managers job. There are only few of them and only one at any one club. But we do have lots of coaches jobs. How many coaches are black in the premiership clubs? bearing in mind that a signifiacnt proportion of players who have retitred in the last 10 or 20 years are black. Not many. I am not for an instant saying that managers, or owners are intentionally racist or prejudiced. The bottom line for a manager and owner is success. Does he care if the fellow bring him that is black, yel;low or white? Probably not. But what I am saying is that people see his colour and do not give him the same chance as the other guy. You might say that if he owns the club he has the right to choose to employ who he wants. And of course no one denies that the balck coach or manager could be as s**t as the white one and deserving to be sacked just as much. I am not saying that football is institutionally racist. We have made great strides in this country that we should be proud of. But I think we can make much further progress.
" By the way I include asians, indians, mixed, and other non- white in the "black" denomination. " So you do include Suarez then?, and as both Ferdinand and Roberts have both said it's okay for black players to call other black players black (and by implication the silence over the Rio case from Powar, ousley, Blissett, Carlisle, et al assumes consent too) ergo Suarez did nothing wrong calling Evra a negro.
Carl - well written argument. However, I would like to reiterate the point that unless we were in the job interviews and reviewed very candidate, we will never know why black coaches fail to get the job. Do we blame it all on racist agendas or whether or not the coaches are simply good enough.
Carl, the representation argument is always churned-out as a supposed demonstration of institutional racism. I would like to forward the argument that the imbalance between the number of black players and the number of black managers/trainers is merely a reflection of pace of change that has always existed within football. Prior to the 1950s, how many ex-pros became managers. How many league trainers were more likely to have been PTIs in the Services rather than ex-pros. The numbers of black trainers and managers will rise by themselves. Taking too short a time frame is merely heating up a 'problem' that is already in the process of self-rectifying.
Thanks for that Carl. I was a little clumsy in my opening so I apologise for that. The type of discussion happening here on this thread is what needs to happen. Get away from soundbites & cliches and ask the questions without being afraid of the answers which has happened on every side of this issue and pretty much sums up the FA. So I have a little sympathy with Roberts when he throws a stupid T-Shirt down symbolically. So what to do. As we all suggest, collate the stats, publish them and get everyone (inclusively) around the table and ask how do we change this. Because I don't think the main issue here is name calling among players (although not dismissing it). Football does indeed reflect society which means its largely controlled by WASPS. The reason I worry about following the American model is that it hasn't worked well enough. Look at the main US sports and the vast majority of the top posts are still white men.the lawyers aren't interested in resolving the issues; that would be self destructive: they're interested in maintaining the tensions of the status quo. Football isn't necessarily the place I have as much sympathy regarding race issues other than its place in our society & effect on youth but.... If you must have positive discrimination (I obviously instinctively shy away from it) make it YOUNG black men & woman (and any other race, creed religion that wants to) taking over kids coaching. Have the FA 100% fund their training and development at their brand new spanking site & send them out to the grass routes: same with refs. Aren't they literally going to be doing degree level training in all these areas? Get entire generations being brought up with good quality fully backed coaches who just happened to be black or brown or yellow or a girl (check out ScouseLaura on twitter for good example). And let players put their own money where their mouths are. On 100000 a week the likes of Rio could fully fund the annual Ferdinand scholarship: awarded to an inner city black kid to go to the FA's coaching or physiotherapy centre. Have him say he's showing a fellow kid the way up & he's paying for it? Realistically or alternatively 1% of PFA members annual wages to pay for scholarships weighted to deprived areas to the FA facility. If we take 500 PL players earning an average of 30000 a week (360k a year) that's 180 million a year so 1.8 million a year towards coaching Physio ,white collar jobs in football etc? Awarded to deprived areas as currently stand and you'd find a larger proportion of ethinic minorities filling those placements. Obviously they have to make the grades: its not a free ride but its an opportunity created by the sport for the sport. In 20 years with that experience behind them and you have an ethnically balanced coaching structure rivalling Spain's or Germany's.
Donga, you have moved the argument into problems that could arise. I would just say that if Suarez wished to be considered black, then he could if he wished to join a (if/when it exists) black footballers association. It will be up to the FA and other authorities to judge what appropriate actions needed to be taken if there is a dispute. Just because they are both in the same association, does not mean that X cannot be done for abusing Y. The association is just that and wlll not have any powers to impose sanctions etc. We all agree that Evra did a job on Suarez but that does not mean that all the members of such a black footballers association need to think alike. There will be people who do not get on or dislike aech other just like any group, club or association.
Can i just add a note of caution though. Can please please people not forget simple math: 90% of the UK population is white. 72% of the US population is white It's not a great leap to suggest the majority of posts will be filled in those countries by white people and that it becomes even more apparent as you narrow down in numbers at the top of organisations. And that's without even touching standard of education received etc. But yes the % of players who are black is probably much higher than the national ethnic split. But it could also be as simple as a % of the current set of players just don't want to be coaches and have other business interests after playing.
If Rio has such an issue with the KIO organization, maybe he should consider giving some financial support to them given that their yearly budget is lower than what he makes in 3 weeks... Maybe if the FA truely want to 'kick it out', they should better spend the 110million elite player training facility on financing combating racism rather than the pathetic 500k annual support. Maybe football isn't the issue at all (which is where I'm at) and it's just racism (well, prejudice and discrimination in general) in society. No one has the bollocks in football to actually do anything severe. Useless fines which they won't even notice and a few games ban changes nothing. Now go away and make the team play their next home game without home support and you'll get a reaction. Give meaningful punishmens or don't bother at all. They just try to show they're making a stand but their actions suggest otherwise. Terry admits to using racist remarks and yet Chelsea keep him as the captain...not really doing much are they? Society needs fixing first, but the FA can at least make football non-tollerant by utilizing proper punishments. Last point I wanted to make was this absurd idea the FA toy with of having balanced shortlists of female, black, asian, white, whatever people on it. No. Shortlists should be the best candidates, nothing more, nothing less. This is another attempt of showing that they want to do something but not actually doing anything. The problem here stems from much lower down the chain, at grass roots and amateur level where not enough funding is going and where there's not enough support or education to encourage ALL people into football. Alot also comes down to culture and the environment they live in, even religion. Summary: FA need to put their money where their mouth is and tackle the problem instead of pretending to do something which fails to scratch the surface but makes them look good. Footballers need to go into the community and show togetherness, reach out to young people (and older I guess) and set a positive example (also on the pitch). Educate, support and fund people to get into football instead of silly schemes which serve only to positively discriminate getting non-white people into football.
Think we could do with a players' union of those that don't assault women and beat partners, even if that did exclude Giggs and Ferdnind. "After United's 2–1 loss to Chelsea in the Premier League in April 2008 Ferdinand, angry at the defeat, swore at Chelsea stewards and tried to kick a wall in the tunnel, but instead kicked a female steward, Tracy Wray. Ferdinand claimed to have merely brushed her with his foot.[31] Ferdinand said he apologised and sent the steward some flowers. However, Wray showed the bruise on her leg to the media and her husband claimed that Ferdinand did not apologise or send flowers" Pious ****ing ****. Assaulting women with no remorse is ten times worse than calling someone black in the middle of an argument that they started themselves with their own racial and disrimatory comments.
Gordon Taylor has come up with a 6 point plan to prevent/eradicate racism within the game. The list reads: 1 - Speeding up the process of dealing with reported racist abuse with close monitoring of any incidents. 2 - Consideration of stiffer penalties for racist abuse and to include an equality awareness programme for culprits and clubs involved. 3 - An English form of the 'Rooney rule' - introduced by the NFL in America in 2003 - to make sure qualified black coaches are on interview lists for job vacancies. 4 - The proportion of black coaches and managers to be monitored and any inequality or progress highlighted. 5 - Racial abuse to be considered gross misconduct in player and coach contracts (and therefore potentially a sackable offence). 6 - To not lose sight of other equality issues such as gender, sexual orientation, disability, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and Asians in football. http://www1.skysports.com/football/...s-a-six-point-action-plan-to-deal-with-racism If his plan would have been in place during the Suarez case would the player and the club accept instant dismissal based on the findings of a flawed FA hearing where equal rights for both parties was refused? Taylor lives in cloud cuckoo land if he thinks his 'plan' could work.
He completely misses the point on all issues. He's trying to jump into the media spotlight as a shining beacon for all things positive in stopping racism when in actual fact, he's just giving vague statements (speeding up of the process of dealing with reported racist abuse...yeah, good one sherlock. How about telling us HOW you ****ing plan on doing it?) or absurd suggestions which are just promote positive discrimination (see the Rooney Rule). He's an idiot.
There have been some good points made on both sides of the debate here, but I think we're in danger of over elaborating. Surely, the point is not whether or not there is prejudice, but how to deal with it? The only way for racism to die is for it to stop being an issue, so nobody cares about the colour or ethnicity of others. A black players' union would do nothing to solve the problem, it would just perpetuate it.
