Terry - Can't disagree about the top top clubs not wanting Cattermole and the reasons you've given there either - as you've said the argument is Tiote or Cattermole - I hate diving whinging players and think they are abig detriment to the game - as has also been said Tiote's DM form hasn't been great this season (whereas Cattermole's has) so current form would see me have Cattermole instead!!
Funny thing with Tiote is that every Toon fan I know in person doesn't rate him massively at all, indeed several had no fear at all if he was to be sold in the summer. Stark contrast with this board, where a few will admit he's short in several areas, and many go on like he's Maradona crossed with Makelele! For me he's a very good defensive midfielder, no more than that, he is better than Catts overall, but it's marginal, and Catts is DEFINITELY more influential to the relative side. The Toon without Tiote are not far different, he's not a match winner, Cabaye has the ball more, as does HBA, he's just a shield with limited passing who makes the odd decent attacking burst in a game. When we lose Catts, the whole team is bent out of shape & loses momentum, direction & leadership. This season, pre ban, only Mignolet is within a million miles of the outstanding Catts, who has won balls, passing has been much sharper, and who has really captained the side, got a hold of the lads and ref. As such, I'd have Catts, for us, 99 times out of 100.
Mush But if you had Tiote, then they'd have Catts and Catts is banned and you could leave Tiote out and then there'd be neither of them on the pitch. Marcus Completely agree, it annoys me when even our players dive. I hate Ashley Young and Danny Welbeck for the style that they're trying to implement into this United side, it's not the Fergie way and it never will be. I look at players like Ballack who would lie and cheat to win any game back in his day and think it was disgusting but now I look at some of our players and it's the same story. I agree with what Mush says too, some Toon fans bang on as if Tiote is the next Roy Keane or Vieira hyping him up as if it's inevitable that he'll eventually be sold for £30m...how much was Ramires bought for by Chelsea? whatever it was half it, that's what Tiote's value is. He's worth a shed load more than the 3m they paid for him for sure, but talk of £25-30m he'll still be there when he's 40 if that's their valuation. Unplayable on his day, just like your examples of Catts against Arsenal and City, but for me, I'd take Tiote if I had to pick one of them, but like Mush says it's a close call, especially considering form, that gap might widen depending on how your respective seasons go. Both very interesting and debatable players though, which is good for us!
Thing is Terry, Tiote would offer nothing to a counter attacking side, Catts does move the ball on quickly after he's won or received it, whereas Tiote sometimes runs with it, with the odd success. I'm not saying Tiote is ****e, not at all, he simply would not suit our style of play, and he lacks the leadership of Catts (one element that is beyond dispute). Tiote would have too much workload in our side, and he'd not have much effect.
Exactly Mush That's why I said in my first post, it's all subjective. Chelsea have been guilty of hoovering up talent for years, without knowing how they'd play within the CFC system. Loads of them have fallen by the wayside, victims of the Drogba-Lampard syndrome, where if you can't play with them, then pack your bags. The same applies here in this argument between SAFC and NUFC fans, none of you really want the other player because you've seen how well your player can play for you and the opposition player wouldn't necessarily offer the same. Out of curiosity, do you guys reckon that language has any bearing on the game? Tiote/Ben Arfa/Ba/Cisse/Cabaye all talking/shouting instructions to each other in French, your players won't know what they're planning, maybe Sessegnon aside, do they speak French in Benin? probably, is he from Benin? is Benin a country, that word's just lost all meaning. For me, I'd be telling them to speak in French if I was Pards, just to give you guys the run around. I'm not a football manager though, there's probably a load of flaws involved in this tactic.
He's from Benin, but has been in France many, many years, & French is the official language of Benin anyway! It could help, for sure, but I don't have that down as a major concern, it's just a case of someone getting a grip on Cabaye and stopping him passing (although he hits a lot of chipped/floated passes, playing into JOS hands, who's been outstanding all season), and someone trying to keep HBA on a leash (must be Rose, who can get close to him pace wise) Tiote won't damage us, but he may well control the flow of the game.
It could go either way for Rose. I'm a massive Ben Arfa fan, total class on his day. If he even turns up 90% Rose is going to have a nightmare, but not just him. Ben Arfa's a drifter, he'll move in and out of the middle and swap flanks for a bit too, just to pick off the weaknesses, the players who turn up with no bottle. You can't man mark him, get too tight to him and he'll skip through your entire back line, even teams like United and City just have to hope he doesn't see much of the ball, or he just doesn't turn up. In respect it's probably a similar situation to Sessegnon, he has the ability to hurt teams with his trickery and flair, I really hope they're both on form for this game as a neutral. Form goes well and truly out of the window for derby games, Rose could be a made man after this one if he keeps Ben Arfa quiet. Draw, hopefully the ref will have a good game, the worst thing after derby games are talking points involving the ref. If either team is going to win it, I'd have to pick Sunderland, simply because they're due one and Newcastle were absolutely awful against us first half and that type of football will get you a deserved hammering.
Rose has really impressed me Terry, I admit I wasn't remotely excited by his arrival, but he's got better by the week, and he did himself no harm with talk of wanting to stay permanently early doors either! He's quick & good on the ball, and he's not bad at all defensively. Like you, I think Ben Arfa is a stunning player (and will be at United or similar next season, for a huge fee...), but I take heart form the job Rose did with young Sterling of Liverpool, who was busy and very, very impressive, but taken all the way by Rose in a great tussle. It's 1-1 for me, but either side could nick it, I think both sides are mentally good enough to cope with conceding early, so even if we go behind I won't **** bricks immediately, same as if we go in front I won't think we're on our way!
Nah, I totally get the Rose hype so early on, he's earned it so far with his good performances, consistency is key for the young lad though, hopefully he'll do it. Nobody would have been excited about him coming, face it he was never gonna score a screaming volley every game was he? But that's what he can do on a derby day. Good to see a young kid with so much passion, he'll do ok if he keeps his head out of the clouds.
He'll be a smashing player for us for a few years Terry, I have no doubt. He seems to like it up here, he's a Donny lad, so hour and a half home, maybe even less if he stays in Yarm like a few of the lads. An on form Ben Arfa is unplayable though, he's mauled teams in the Champions Leage as a 20 year old, and he's better now than he was then!
I'd take Ben Arfa at United all day long, but I really think Ben Arfa would enjoy his football on a personal level more at Newcastle. He'd not be given the same freedom here at Old Trafford.
Ben Arfa is awesome - Hit the ground running this season after finishing well last. But if you can stop him and upset him early on he gets a little huffy and it may be something we can exploit! But if he gets a good run at the defence in the first 5 or 10 minutes of the game I fear for how well he'll play!! Great player (although it pains me to say it!!)
Would probably take about ten bricks to stop him, I might look a bit odd carrying those into the ground.
You know, if you keep tight on Benny (as with any good dribblers) and don't give them space to turn and see space you will contain them. Rose has the pace to get away with letting him go past as well. Richardson struggled last year against Benny because he constantly backed off. Don't be afraid to go for a challenge. A foul is better to give away than a potential goal. Also bear in mind our set pieces are woeful (attack and defence wise)
Defensively you've massively struggled but you've still go tquality players who can take a free kick - Cabaye and Ben Arfa are both dangerous!!
QWOP - completely disagree with keeping tight on Ben Arfa, couldn't be a worse strategy than man marking that bloke. He thrives when players are tight to him, he'll nick the ball around them and he's gone, with the marker totally left for dead. Even with pace, somebody like Rose will not catch him once he's away, he has the knack of leaving defenders on their back foot so they can't turn and chop him down. The only way to stop him, is to rely on him having a poor day or cut off his supply line, put 2 defenders on him and he'll lose them both. The fact that he tries too much sometimes, will also help; if he had the vision of a Giggs or a Fabregas he'd be lethal.
Could be that we double up on him, and the Toon double up on Fletch or Sess, making the game ridiculously open.
