That's a bit contentious AK - many would say that Scotland pay a rather large part of the others' bills. I don't think that too many are fooled by the term 'Independence' - I think they see it more as an exercise in reducing layers of government - replacing three - Edinburgh, Brussels and Westminster - with two, Edinburgh and Brussels. Personally, I wouldn't vote for it, but I think that our First Minister is pushing for the vote for 16 year olds because they appear to favour it.
One of the four parts of the UK is Northern Ireland which over its 100 year history as an "separate" entity from the rest of Ireland has consistently fought tooth and nail to remain part of the UK (or at least 2/3rds of its population has - the remaining 1/3rd wants to unite with the Republic, broadly speaking). Most of the population of Wales realises that it is best served by remaining part of the UK - it has not existed as a separate political entity for at least 600 years, but now has its own Assembly - which seems to be about as far as most Welsh want in terms of "independence" - but if the Posh Boy Tories go on in their current manner - who knows - even England may push for independence from Surrey?
Morning all, thanks for the caramel latte Ak thank you Barry i like to think i went to the University of life. Living in Israel for a year started my course off nicely! lol Ok. Is it just me. First of all, this little piece of history passed me by until it was actually happening and i saw the tweets all over twitter. I was busy catching up on Strictly so ignored it, and watched it afterwards. Now, in my book, to do something so dangerous in view of the world, (literally!) is in itself pretty weird, after all, many have tried before him and lost their lives because of it. And not being into sky diving (although i have done a parachute jump) it held no excitement for me whatsoever. Hmm, i'm guessing, with all the euphoria following it, it is actually just me...but 'Fearsome Felix' seems a bit more like 'Foolhardy Felix' to me! lol Bah humbug!
Not sure of your point Ak - Scotland is a lot larger than Iceland which is a viable separate country. Also Eire left the "UK" or whatever it was then so Scotland would have a broadly similar relationship to the rest of the UK that Eire does I would guess. There would be little appetite in the rest of the UK to "kick Scotland out" as I think we value the UK as it is and view it as a shame if Scotland left. However it is up to them and if they want independence they should have it. One effect is that it would be likely to leave the rest of the UK with a Tory government as the Tories have no representation in Scotland nowadays whereas Labour would lose quite a few seats. Financially I am not sure what effect it would have - I think England subsidises Scotland to an extent (although Scots would claim that North Sea Oil should be theirs). I am sure they would cut their defense budget massively though so that could either fund other things or reduce their taxes.
You certainly in the minority there H. Surely you must recognise the bravery and the cajones to undertake such an endeavor. I think the record of highest jump will stand forever. There is only 10km more stratisphere before you hit the next layer of atmosphere. It seems pointless to risk everything for a couple of KM.
I don't think that's strictly true about Brussels - they are in the EU as part of Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland but as soon as they become "independent" they would have to apply for membership, which could mean that all Scottish MEPs would lose their seats until the application was granted.
It would seem that the Yes campain in Scotland are hiding some of the legal matters that would apply if they became a separate state. Experts have recently warned that new member states to the EU are given no option but to join the euro. The pro independant groups are saying that they will but only when it suits them. They could be wrong in the same way that they believe that they will receive more from EU than they will pay. From my reading of the situation they would have to pay a great deal more and also contribute to the funds set aside to bail out some of the countries in the greatest trouble at present.
I thought the grand plan for Scottish independence was to form a economic powerhouse and join up with Ireland to add to The Celtic Tiger? They would join the Euro in doing so...seems like a change of heart then
Leo, I do not really have a point. I am trying to understand why one part of a successful group should want to leave. It would be like Catalunya leaving Spain or Bayern leaving Germany. I can understand the Scottish National group will push until the country is independent but it might not be the best for Scotland or the United Kingdom. We finally got away from Danmörk in 1944 but we had really been alone for many years before, we had a constitution and rule from ReykjavÃk in 1874 and independence was in 1918, with the king of Danmörk as the head of the nation, which is odd. Our problem was language, distance and economic. The language and distance are easy but the economic is because Ãsland, was part of Norway to 1380, supplied Norway with fish and when the king of Norway died and we both joined Kalmar union Danmörk was dominating. Danmörk did not need the fish and we became a very poor and the national movement got strong in the middle of 19 century and now we are separate from everyone.
Many Scots just hate the English - they never miss an opportunity to mention Rob Roy, Bannockburn etc (mind you lots of other nationalities hat e the English too )
It's not so much the English that they hate - it's the Tory English. Thatcher did her level best to turn Scotland into a wasteland back in the 80's and Cameron appears to want to continue on where she left off. As to Rob Roy etc I think the words of our National Anthem reflect what most feel - "those days are past now and in the past they must remain" - but there's nothing like reflecting on past glories, especially when they have been few and far between like ours.
I think independence would be good for Scotland and it will demonstrate the maturity of our democracy that allows a people that obviously so different that they should be the masters of their own destiny. According to a member of the SNP on Radio 5 this afternoon, this referendum is all about the Scots wishing to follow their Social conscious and historically this is very different to the rest of the UK and in England in particular. So why should anyone resist this goal?
Nope, seems really stupid to risk everything in the first place! Like i said, he wasn't the first to try, he was just the first to survive! Daft if you ask me!
They said on the news program that I watched this afternoon that the SNP have a huge amount of work to do if they want the country to vote in the way that they wish. From that you can assume that the majority of the Scots at this point are far from convinced by the argument in favour. At the end of the day I suspect that it will come down to economics in the same way that general elections are won and lost. So far it has not been necessary to talk detailed figures, in fact the SNP have refused to talk about the reports that have been made throwing doubt about the economic model they propose. When it comes down to it I am sure that the nation will be hard headed enough to to realise that the rosy glow that the SNP want to cover up the figures with will be seen through.
Now come on, whats life without a little risk? Why did you do your skydive? We all take a risk by waking up every morning and walking out the door. Why should we life a safe life? I would shake his hand!
Unfortunately OFH, I suspect that the whole campaign will focus on highlighting the negatives of the other camps position, so that full details will never be made available. If the Scots vote for independence in 2014, according to the SNP plans they would not be in a position to move to that independence until 2016 - but looking at other major infrastructure and organisational change programmes undertaken by governments, I doubt very much that they would be ready by then either and it would drag on and on...still it's going to fascinating time for inspecting our politicians and their "consultants"in action and someone is going to make some serious coin!
I realise that Barry - but the point about reducing layers of government is still true. At the end of the day, Edinburgh and Brussels would have replaced Edinburgh, Brussels and Westminster. Spot on. The SNP appear to be giving Jock Public the impression that they will go to bed British and wake up Scottish & it just isn't that simple. And from what I've been told about today's Cameron/Salmond love-in, the referendum will be going ahead without any detailed information from the SNP regarding the economic viability of independence - which seems rather strange.
