I agree ASC, still discovering performance as I go with these cars, the yellow flag was a bigger influence than the performances of the cars shown. The Ferrari is though better on race pace than the McLaren that's for sure.
I was also thinking that they were both outraced by a Sauber, or be it one being driven for its life!
I'll give it to Kamui that it was mostly down to luck and skill for him today and not entirely about the car.
Luck? how was it luck? luck is having an accident and gambling on the weather going bad to score a 2nd place despite going off track badly twice, skill is qualifying well and seeing the race out in a car that obviously isn't as fast.
Luck in the sense he was a tad bit lucky to have a yellow flag coming out to ruin other drivers qualifying laps. I'm not saying it was all luck but a tad bit of luck to give him the chance to get 3rd on the race. Race day he was faultless, I just think he was a tad lucky that a Yellow flag came up at the end of qualifying and he pushed it through it faster and harder than anybody left on track to set a time like Alonso etc... and he got away with a stewards enquiry which could of ended badly, but it didn't. All in all it was more about Kamui than the luck and car he was in.
ok, fair enough, although tbh it's about time he had a bit of Perez's luck, who is easily the luckiest driver in F1.
He's one of the unluckiest, especially with the stewards. Vettel is close to being the luckiest of all time.
Updated Australia:McLaren Malaysia:McLaren China: Mercedes/McLaren Bahrain: Lotus Spain: McLaren/Lotus/Williams Monaco: Mercedes Canada: Red Bull/Lotus Valencia: Red Bull Britain: Ferrari/Red Bull Germany: McLaren/Ferrari Hungary: Lotus Belgium: McLaren Italy: Ferrari Singapore: Red Bull/McLaren Japan: Red Bull/Ferrari S.Korea: Red Bull/Ferrari McLaren at 7 races. RBR at 6 races. Ferrari at 5 races. Lotus at 4 races. Mercedes at 2 races. Williams at 1 race.
I'm sorry but there is no way you can say that Red Bull and Ferrari were on the same pace this weekend, Red Bull clearly had the fastest car this weekend and there's nothing wrong with that in fact that's what every driver wants That's why I am sick to death of drivers like Alonso and fans of certain drivers always claiming someone else has the fastest car, people these days think that it reflects badly on a driver if they win in the fastest car
And yet Massa was lapping faster than Seb and Webber at the end, he would of beat Alonso and likely Webber if he was allowed to. Massa was the faster driver today just like at Suzuka, not Alonso, it's just Ferrari didn't want him making the gap bigger to Seb and for that they get an equal car to RBR on this list. And I too am getting sick and tired of the slur of having the fastest car, I just get bored of that it always! seems to be Seb that has the fastest car. Maybe RBR have never had the best car on the grid? and it's just Seb and Webber are just a level above the others? It's no more than as stupid as looking at gaps within qualifying and race. RBR could pick any 2 drivers on the grid but yet they keep on giving Seb and Mark new contracts every year...
In the end it was Webber who set the fastest lap, and Seb probably could have gone quicker if he didn't have any tyre problems. Massa was faster than Alonso but neither Ferrari driver could really close up on the Red Bulls. Vettel was cruising for most of the race and at times suddenly increased his laptime to one that the Ferrari drivers couldn't get anywhere near. Red Bull were clearly the fastest here. Just going back to Japan, why are Ferrari listed? It doesn't make any sense. Going back a bit further to Italy, I don't think McLaren should be listed. It was close between them and Ferrari, but Ferrari should easily have taken pole and I don't think we saw Alonso's true pace in the race because for the first half of the race he was in traffic and then in the second half he had significant damage to suspension and aero (but still lapped in the high 1m28's whereas Hamilton could only do mid 1m28's).
Because Massa got 2nd? and creamed Jenson and Kamui... Logic suggests Alonso would of pressured Seb much more than he did. And ok I'll take your word from a Ferrari fan that you believe you had a better car at Monza than what McLaren did it has been changed.
There is no way you can say that the Ferrari was as fast as the Red Bull at Japan and S.Korea. Seb was well in control of the race, he didn't push because he didn't need too. Don't forgot that for most of the race, he had a 10 second lead, he got that lead by driving away from the rest of the grid. Once at 10 seconds he held station. Also Webber was faster than both Ferrari's on new tyres, it was only on worn tyres that the Ferrari's had any chance of getting near him. And at the end of the race, went the Ferrari's where catching him Webber put in a couple of laps just to maintain the gap again. The last 3 races, Red Bull have had the fastest car. Ferrari have caught them a little, but they are still a couple of tens off the Red Bull.
Silver likes to believe that it's all down to Seb and that RBR have never proudced the fastest car. Even last year he didn't think the RBR was the quickest becuase of what Webber was doing with it. Just let him carry on. The nurse will be round shortly to administer his next lot of medicine
Sorry, Silver, but this is just plain wrong. As much as you'd like us to believe that Seb is outdriving an inferior car thereby proving his superiority, it is clear to me that not only has he had the best car for the last three races but also that he was dutifully supported yesterday by his team mate; logically, as the WDC is very close between Seb and Alonso. Furthermore, it is well-known that the Red Bull excels especially in clear air: that was the formula for 2011's domination, now they've found it again.
Secret weapon for 2011: "He must be a brilliant driver, because by the end of last season we definitely had the best car and he was still whupping us," McGrath said. "We're trying to figure out exactly what he's doing that's so good. How does he pull out that fast qualifying lap every time? We think it's driver skill. There's no trickery on the cars, he just gets more out of it than we do." 30 minutes later it gets dropped from Autosport and the editor admits a big named team came forward and demanded it to be taken off... well it sure as hell wasn't RBR or Ferrari was it?
And I'm sorry I never gave into this **** Alonso has been driving a **** car for the whole season, he had the car to fight for the WDC since Barcelona onwards and the media just kissed his arse the whole way that somehow he is some kind of driving god when it's evident they just completely ignored Massa and put all resources into Alonso. It's funny how great Schumacher looked at Ferrari until he went to Mercedes and got beat by Rosberg Funny how good Massa used to be at Ferrari until Alonso came in and he has been beaten by Trulli and Lewis. Ferrari always make the driver look stronger than he actually is as the number 2 always has his hand tied behind his back!
And still it's (my) opinion? you can always make your own up? Though I'm sure Newey always makes the best car
For what it's worth, Silver, I never believed the crap car line from Ferrari either. It's not a slur to say someone has the fastest car, it's not saying that Vettel is no good because it's obviously not true; what is true is that Red Bull are operating better as a team - just look at McLaren by way of contrast. This superior synergy that RBR have is giving them the advantage and obviously Vettel is a key component of this.
Following the live timing, I could see Vettel was just toying with Massa - matching his pace or maybe a tenth or two slower...and then out of nowhere he would go nearly a second faster, only to drop back to Massa's pace a lap later. There's no way Alonso could have matched that sort of pace. Stefano agrees with you: "I think that, realistically, that's the gap [0.2 seconds]. But I would like to find a little bit more, because we know that they are very strong in the single lap". So does Gary Anderson: "The Ferrari is not that far behind the Red Bull and, if they can find a couple of tenths of a second, it might make a big difference to Fernando Alonso's title hopes."
