HI SD, I'm for sure enjoying the win, and have no problems with the way we performed at all, it was a stupendous effort, and I'm still smiling about it now. As a one-off game probably our best result in the Prem era, though obviously the win at City to get us CL was more important, etc.
Sorry Notso, but you seem to be asserting that you're right and I'm wrong as some sort of fact. Both are opinions. Villas-Boas clearly didn't tell the team to go out in the second half and line up in the 12 yard box and not move, but we were forced into that position for most of the half. Defoe's crap at holding the ball up, Dempsey and Bale were both knackered and we didn't have much in the way of offensive options on the bench. Did Utd create a number of chances? Yes, but we created a ton in the first half, when the players expended a lot of energy and put us into a well deserved lead. If we'd have taken all of our opportunities in that period, then we would've been out of sight, but neither team did and most teams don't in the majority of games.
Well said PNP, apparently Bale had had flu all week and not trained, so even to play was a bonus, to play as brilliantly as he did in the first half was incredible, and naturally tired in the second half Dempsey missed a lot of pre-season etc a la Adebayor, and is clearly searching for full fitness yet, hopefully should have come on a bit from tha game and we'll see more from him in the future. Because of our injuries and lack of squad quality compared to the billionaires and Utd, we can't afford to rest players like Bale and Dempsey, even if they're not fully fit we have to push them out there.
"Well said PNP"... why? can't you? need him to do your counter debating for you! Take your snipes elsewhere, along with your Kleenex. PNP - I see what you're saying obviously, "forced back" we'll just have to disagree, they made one change at HT, a quality player agreed, but who hasn't played for weeks. You're right JD is crap at hold up, so why allow such a gap to him from the off? this gap 'allowed' Rooney to get into the game virtually unopposed, and Scholes to do as he pleased. The first 10 mins set the tone, and any player tired or ****ed after 45 shouldn't be out there in the first place imo...thought I'd better put that on the end! Piss poor passing and no support unlike the first 45 was responsible for that. The gist of everything I've said is about this period in the game, and I firmly believe we could have avoided that at least to a degree, outside of that there was much to be positive about, and I still am, picking ourselves up to score a 3rd for a start, so some energy was there, and on that note, probably best to leave it there. I've already been accused of pessimism which isn't the case.
Just a throw a spanner into the debate...."defoe is crap at hold up play".......he done pretty well to hold the ball up, not lose it and play in Bale which lead to Dempseys goal .......
There's always one! his run to make space for Bales goal wasn't bad either, just haven't see enough of it in the past, if he puts it right, great, I doubt it though, JD is just JD!
Even in the best of performances certain things could be done different to improve, I know Fergie has still bollocked his team after a good win. Far too many sensitive souls here!...oh and one arsehole who hasn't got the guts even on an anonymous forum to speak up!
I guess I was in the in between group--wouldn't have sacked Harry, but thought AVB was a good choice... So: AVB deserves tremendous credit for what he's done so far, and I'm now a real believer, but the truth is it is still early. What's pleased and relieved me the most is that he doesn't have a problem using the team's best asset, which is speed down the flanks. I was afraid he was forcing the team into playing narrowly in their second and third games. In fact he's shown great flexibility and willingness to adjust. The analytical approach also may be just what this team needs now. I'm impressed that he's set high standards for the team and himself. Win, lose or draw, it takes character to do that. So things certainly look good. As for the tactics on Sunday...to turn around a long, bad history, you've got to hit first and hit hard, and AVB deserves great credit for an all-out aggressive approach. Nothing else was going to change the two teams' mindsets. As for the second half--well, we survived, which is the main thing, but I thought we made it harder on ourselves than we had to. Sending Bale, Lennon or Dempsey running might have gotten another goal and/or given Man U something to think about. Gylfi was the one player able to keep the ball for a little while. He should have come on earlier. Conversely, bringing on an extra defender earlier might have been a good idea. But I see a shaky second half as resulting more from psychology than from tactics. We were worried about defending a lead, Man U was determined to erase it, and the result was they dominated the half. Next time we have a lead in a big game we should be calmer and more capable.
HI RWB, I don't think Bale or Dempsey had the legs to go running, I don't think it was anything particularly to do with AVB - the team was running on empty after such a first half and the well-documented fitness problems of Bale and Dempsey, plus the effect of a tough schedule on an injury-hit squad. I agree that psychology would have played a part, but again I don't blame AVB for that. It's inevitable under any any manager after the horrors we've suffered up there over the years, plus as SAF repeated just now their second half was their best performance of the season, it was an onslaught of top quality and wounded pride. Re Defoe, I'll happily hold my hand up and say he is now proving me wrong, long may it continue.
I see Utd won AGAIN tonight - that's 7 wins out of 8 - we being the only team to stop that formidable run once again they came from behind, and I heard a pundit say that Cluj couldn't keep up the intensity of their first half performance sound familar? - does AVB manage Cluj? no! were cluj away at OT? no they were at home in romania thousands of miles from manchester and still they couldn't keep up the pace, we hung on against all the odds at OT. It would almost certainly be 8 wins out of 8 for the Utd juggernaut were it not for our heroics on Saturday lots of teams have failed to hold onto leads v utd this season, and in the past, we did and on their patch
aaah, poor Demps and Bale, perhaps we should put a sofa out in the 2nd half! Do you really in your wildest dreams think AVB has decided at HT that 2 of his players are too tired to start the 2nd half but sent them out anyway and told the rest of the team to sit in our half because of it....clueless, utterly clueless. Keep up the stupid comments, you're hilarious!
Enough of all the excuses. We got it completely wrong in the second half against Utd. This is hardly the first time we've seen this happen. How many sieges have our defence gone through this season alone? We needed an outlet further upfield to provide some relief. We failed to do that..simple as.
I think AVB has done pretty well so far. Most people thought our best team last year was Friedel, Walker, King, Kaboul, BAE, Lennon, Modric, Parker, Bale, VdV, Ade. He's only had four of those available most of the time which is an absolutely massive upheaval and we've coped OK. The system is working - I'm particularly pleased to see how Defoe is being used which plays to all his strengths and covers his weaknesses. There are some teething troubles - we don't look fit enough yet and have run out of steam late on in most games. 8 out of 10 for me. By the way I don't understand the criticism of the pressing game/high line. The traditional approach of letting the opponents pass it amongst the back four without challenge is clearly inferior. Since the back four are likely to be the poorest passers in any team it makes sense to give them no time and hope they make a mistake as that means you win the ball back near their goal. Pressing the back four automatically means pushing the defensive line up or you would leave a gap in midfield. Spain and Barcelona have really benefited from playing this way.
There are no excuses from me, and we absolutely didn't get it completely wrong in the second half. we got it completely right because we won the game, a fantastic historic victory, and the fact we stopped utd winning 8 out of 8 was an amazing effort. The players were running on empty yet stil we beat Utd on their own patch, all credit to them and AVB. we succeeded, simple as. Incidentally with Ade back soon, hopefully we'll have a better out ball, but I'm not going to knock Defoe who did brilliantly at OT. since we started our winning run, were we under sige at the end v Reading, no, v QPR, no, v Lazio, no, v Carlisle, no
In the second half, i was shouting, thinking "avb has got to change the tactics to get us back into this game" and i mean in terms of possession, as in my mind even though we was leading, i was thinking what all other spurs fans were thinking.. "its just a matter of time before utd score and go onto win" Second half, all we done was punt the ball up field, and allowed it to come back which didn't help the stress levels of watching the game! Now after the game when everything has calmed down, I did debate what could avb have done? His options Push the defence up higher and try and compete with man utd in midfield Take off Defoe (instead of dempsey) and put Dempsey upfront and ask him to try and hold the ball up/link up with Dembele Pack the centre midfield, which would have meant once the defence got the ball, we would have had outlets to play the ball too and try and keep possession Bearing in mind, this was after us dominating the 1st half, did we dominate because our tactics were so much better? or was it a case of utd being below par and getting their tactics wrong, I would say it was a combination of both. So yes, AVB could have done something different to try and get a stranglehold of the game again and at least compete, but the reason I personally wasn't overly critical of him in this game, was because when Utd are in that form at old trafford, its near on impossible to stop them. And as our high pressure game worked perfectly in the 1st half, I can excuse AVB for the second half as we came out on top(just), yet if this becomes the norm with jerkyl & hyde performances from 1st half to 2nd half then clearly something isn't right with the set-up.
and the only other other point/question i would ask, is.......if we made changes and had more possession but this allowed more space to attack behind our defence and they went onto win, would we be saying "we bottled it once again"?.......so I'm happy that for once we dug deep and didn't lose, even if utd practically bent us over and took advantage for 45 minutes, as come the final whistle, who was laughing?!
I think blaming AVB is completely wrong and all he should be doing is recieving praise for a magnificent historic victory. Where was the jekyll and hyde performance v Lazio, didn't happen, Reading, didn't happen, Carlisle, didn't happen it did happen v QPR and AVB acknowledged his mistake there against Utd he made no mistake, instead steered us to a fantastic victory stopping United from winning 8 out of 8, gaining our first league win there in 23 years, and inflicting united's only lge home defeat this calendar year yet some people want to criticise him, can't agree, all he deserves is praise and our gratitude for engineering what is our single best win in our entire Prem history
I can remember not too long ago you were probably the most pessimistic anti-AVB poster on here. Welcome to the light. AVB
Fair comment GP, I go by results, early on AVB wasn't delivering, now he is. Why people want to criticise him after such a fantastic victory and the current unbeaten streak we're on, I know not.
Yes, we did hang on, but only with great assistance from the woodwork! The point is that we see this happening to Spurs time after time. It's just that the siege lasted practically a whole 45 mins this time. Ok, we won, and I'm happy about that, but the "tactic" of imitating Davy Crockett at The Alamo could have been vastly improved upon, IMO. As we have both said, the main problem was obvious - no outlet upfield. Consequently, the ball just kept coming back at us. I don't think JD has ever spent so long in his own half!.
