Pathetic cup efforts... again!

As a NUFC fan I couldn't help but be interested in tonight's match and excited at the prospect of a decent cup run – however the Capital One (League) Cup just leaves me confused.

Did I want Newcastle to progress? Is it a cup this club and our fans would be proud to win? Do the club even care about the cups, even after telling us that the Premier League matters most and the rest can effectively swivel?

For a club like NUFC, the League Cup is surely a competition tailor made for us to finally grasp at some silverware. Yes, we inevitably get stupidly predictable draws against tougher teams AWAY and I didn't exactly expect us to go to Old Trafford and win – BUT if we were going to beat them then the best chance is in the early rounds.

Can anyone explain to me why we didn't go and play the full, strongest eleven and sweep the Man United C-team away? We'd probably have been out of sight by half time and then able to make changes and rest players later on.
Get through the tie, into the next round and then play the kids if you get a more manageable draw. Man United care about it even less than us but still get through.

The old chestnut is about keeping our best team fresh for the weekend and avoid injuries, but to be honest this is utter bull. Ask yourself how often we've heard that the lads have had adequate break and they've performed sluggish, slow and disinterested.
If anything there's argument to be had this term that the players haven't found any groove or rhythm, so could do with the games thick and fast to work up momentum.

The amount of times we've played sides that are supposed to be 'tired' from fixture congestion, that go on to make our lot look like lethargic statues is frustratingly frequent. Stop acting like we need to wrap them in cotton wool and let them earn their money.
It's no coincidence that we looked more threatening when Cisse came on, so throw Ba, Cabaye, Jonas, Santon and Ben Arfa into the mix and we can only imagine what the result would have been. The irony is these lads would have wanted to play.

No, ultimately it comes down to ambition and from the top of the club to the bottom we have no desire to win cups like the Capital One, FA Cup or indeed the Europa – because the added revenue isn't worth the bother.
We've heard it from the horses mouths that Newcastle United under Ashley and Pardew is only up for scraping 4th spot and the Champions League. On the shoestring budget they cough up this is NOT realistic.

At least the powers that be will get to save the pennies on Mr. Sheen in the process... Because that trophy cabinet ain't about to get a dusting down any time soon!

What does everyone on here think of it, did you want the Toon to progress?
Would you have played the first 11?
If the cups are of no interest to you, should the club make even less of an effort than they are already?

 

I think we would have fielded a stronger team tonight, if it weren't for us having the PL campaign as our priority, and Europa League campaign 2nd.

 

Pardew near enough had the right balance for me (1 more senior player and we'd have nicked a win).

However, to be fair Pardew was in a no win situation. If he'd have played the kids/reserves (like he did) and lost (like we did) he'd have got stick for not playing the first 11 (like he is). At the same time if he plays the first 11 and we win, but then we lose at Reading he'd have taken stick.

I agree with Pardew's recent sentiment, it's not until January that we'll know what we're really playing for this year. If come January top 4 is looking a prospect we must go all out to achieve it and rest players in the cups, purely because it would put us in a MUCH stronger position to challenge for a cup the following season (better players would join, we could afford a bigger squad etc).

We were unlucky tonight, I'm happy with AP's team selection for the game and there were too many positives for me to be depressed about the result.

 

I just think the team selection can be a bit more dynamic and intelligent than that.

I'm not suggesting that had we been drawn at home to Carlisle we'd put the big guns out, but a trip to Old Trafford is a wholly different prospect.
Put out our best team, knock them out and get a great result (not achieved since 1972), get into the next round and possibly a safer tie. It would also be a real confidence booster going into the Reading game.

We have got to rotate the squad in certain games against certain opponents. However I never had much confidence that the starting eleven tonight could get the job done and that says much about our supposed strength in depth.

I wouldn't agree that we were unlucky either. We were actually pretty lucky to still be in touching distance of taking the game into extra time. Man United could easily of had at least 4 or 5 without requiring exquisite finishing.

Also I see BTW that Reading did the business AWAY tonight at QPR. Does that now give us an edge for Saturday then? Will their players show more signs of tiredness? Lets hope so...

 

Vuckic, Gosling x2, Williamson all missed sitters for us. Gosling also nearly scored from 25 yards and Cisse cracked the bar. We had plenty of chances too mate, at no point in that game did I feel Man Utd should have been out of sight, it didn't even cross my mind.

With regards to Reading I'm not sure what sort of team they had out tonight, but I fully expect us to go there are do the business this weekend. Especially if Cisse picks up where he left off tonight.

 

Newcastle boss Alan Pardew following his side's 2-1 loss at Manchester United:

"We left ourselves open at times when we were chasing. It was a really good game. We were pressing. We knew if we could get Papiss on and if he could get a chance he'd score. I'm pleased for the players but disappointed for the club because I thought we deserved more. Coloccini is a bit sore. Whether he did enough to play on Saturday I don't know. I'm not sure I should have played Williamson. But we're short at centre-half."

 

It's that sort of thing that grates on me, everyone knew we were short at centre half in the summer, Pardew knew, MA knew, DL knew, the fans knew, the players knew, even Cwarr and the bloody kit man knew, yet we didn't act.

Still like I said, too many good signs after tonight's match so I'm going to focus on them instead!

 

Really??? That's uncanny because I would have said the exact same BEFORE the match. Before you opted to play Vuckic up there with Ameobi instead!

This thing of waiting until we're 2-0 down to inject a bit of life and cutting edge to a forward line that had carved out very little is bizarre to me.

I think the wider point is just the frustration of every year accepting a cup run is over for Newcastle United before it starts. I frankly disagree with this policy of resting of players in preparation for the next game etc, etc.
You can do that until the cows come home, protecting your best players but winning nothing. You have to be sensible yes, especially with a small squad, but our top players should be able to cope with the extreme rarity of playing 3 matches in a week. Especially as we didn't break much sweat against Norwich on Sunday!
With respect to Reading also, but perhaps if we had one eye on the Tyne-Wear derby I'd be more anxious to have everyone 100% fresh and fit. The trip to the Madejski is going to be just as tough BTW with the first eleven back.

No, it all boils down to what you want to achieve and they didn't fancy the Capital One – lets just be honest about it. I just happen to think that's a shame for this club, however maligned the trophy is...

 

We should have pressed harder for a CB in the summer, simple as.

 

They put out a mixed team - some definite first teamers and some fringe players. A few key players rested on the bench / not in the match squad.
QPR had one of their strongest line-ups. Just goes to show...

 

this! 100%

 

I'm on the brink of being Pardew out. Not because he hasn't done amazing for our club, and not because I can think of a single manager out there who is better than him, but because as a fan I want to see us try and win trophies. Let's face it, we're not gonna be in the champs league this year. Every year we are just going to be working hard all season to have 3 chances at a trophy the following year, and throwing them all so we can do well in the prem and go through it all again. I would prefer a manager that had us finishing 17th every year and playing a full strength team in the cups than a manager who gets us 5th every year and deliberately throws every cup we are in.

Tonight was a disgrace.

 

Have to disagree with you there.

Pardew has done as well as we could have expected. As for finishing 17th just to 'gamble' on decent cup runs - no way! My nerves wouldn't be able to take it. Dicing so close to relegation on a regular basis is no place to be - cups or no cups. We simply would not hold on to decent players and the season would be too much of a rollercoaster.

Regular top 7 finishes would do me. IF we can snatch some silverware on the way, then great.

 

If this isn't an ironic reply to my post, then I sincerely apologise – it just seems like it might be!

I'd add that in NO way whatsoever do I agree with the remotest notion that Pardew should go, or that tonight's result should pose the question.

What I would say, if your response is genuine, is that I don't think it's unfair to have the hope we can challenge for the cups and be more competitive in those (where warranted) and still perform solidly in the league.
Pardew for me does have a tough task in managing the squad particularly when no significant investment is being made, but you can pick your moments and not have to keep everyone in cotton wool ALL the time.

I simply don't believe that playing our strongest possible eleven (bar Rob Elliott perhaps) tonight would have harmed our chances enough at Reading on Saturday to use it as a legitimate excuse.
If we're playing that kind of game, then will there be an inquest and public apology if the three points don't materialise this weekend?

Tonight was far from a disgrace, but to be annoyed at NUFC passing up another opportunity for a 'winnable' trophy at the first hurdle isn't unreasonable...

 

Now THIS I agree with!

 

I disagree. I know we haven't won anything since the Fairs Cup in the 60s. Even then, I don't think we should've played the starters out here. We have a big squad for a reason(and reasons beyond me that we didn't get a CB and RB to add to where was needed), but we're deep in midfield and have Shola up front, so it makes sense to play a 4-4-1-1 as we did. We played a decent game to be honest with our second string, with one eye on the league which obviously has to be our priority, since we need to build on last season's victory.

The team wasn't even that weak, we had Tiote and Colo, Shola up front, with our second string midfielders, Tav played well, and we had Willo and Perch who are very much first team players. To lose at Old Trafford is nothing near a disgrace. Mind you, they had Rooney, De Gea, Hernandez how much are those 3 players combined? Could the team have won? Yes. But they lost, and that's too bad, and actually alright to me. There are no easy fixtures in the league cup, look who they had in the next round? Chelsea away, and it could've been any of the tough top teams.

If we had played the starters and lost, then lost the league game due to tiredness, would we even be debating if this was the correct move?
Putting some of the second string is good for their experience as well, its better to let them play and rest our starters than to play our starters in quick succession and risking even more injury, and letting the youngsters rot around.

 

I feel more relaxed about losing this game than any other game we will play this year.

We just don't have the squad to play in the Prem, the Europa, the league cup, and hte FA Cup. There is no question that, if we have to sacrifice one of them, the the league cup is the one to let go.

If we are going to stretch our resources to try to get a decent cup run, let's do it in Europe or in the FA. Unfortunately, if the players we can spare from first string duty aren't good enough to keep us in the league cup (and unfortuantely they were not quite food enough tonight) then we have to waive it good bye

 

We don't have a squad capable of playing in 4 tournaments. Europa > Capital Cup. Pretty simple, really.

And if we'd won that game, ManU could have had no complaints either. So it is what it is. Would I be bothered winning this tournament? Honestly, no. It's been so degraded by the top clubs and media that it's not really got any meaning any more. I agree with many pundits that perhaps Prem teams should be scrapped from entering, or at the very least those in European competition shouldn't be in it.

 

You're all poo-pooing the COcup, but if we'd have won it then European football would've been guaranteed for another season.

 

If we win it, great. If we don't , that's fine as well. It's not the end of the world if we get eliminated, its not a crowning achievement if we had defeated Manure, because then we would still have several top premier league teams to play and with our current record, we just might get another hostile away game again. None of us are belittling the league cup, we know how trophy-starved we are, but we want to be realistic that we need to manage our resources(players) so that the first team isn't overtaxed and in the long run lose out on everything.