No, sorry, but there was serious local rivalry between us & "them" long before a mediocre football commentator's description of a local derby. My father attended games between the clubs in the old Division 3 South in the mid-thirties and told me tales of "their" fans being hauled off the "321" bus at Garston and chased back up the road towards St Albans before games. There was always trouble at both grounds during the 20s and 30s until "they" finally won promotion to the old Division 2 in the late 30s (beating us 3-1 at Vicarage Road to condemn us to finish behind them - only 1 team went up in those days!). The reason that the rivalry had, to all intents and purposes, died down in the 50s and early 60s is that "they" spent that time in the top 2 divisions - so the only games played between the clubs were "friendlies" for the Rigby Taylor Cup off and on. The "local" rivals then became QPR - but they were always a poor second to "them" up the road. Only when "they" were relegated back to the old Division 3 in 1963 were the derbies (and the resultant hatred) resumed. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Brian Moore.......... Incidentally, rivalry "them" is one of the things that defines "our Watford", regardless of what nether regions of pub football "they" may be plummeting to.
I might be old enough to be Jimmy Hill's son..... but I'm not. David Coleman or Ken Wolstenholme were 2 of the best commentators in my view. I do enjoy watching "The Big Match Revisited" on ITV 4 though.
Very true vic - our eminent historian Ollie Phillips pinpointed the start of the rivalry as being after the very first away match against the scummers back in 1885. Playing as Watford Rovers, we trounced them 3-0 and the local neanderthals lay in wait to stone the Watford fans as they made their way home. Not a lot has changed about the place in the intervening 127 years.
Never mind about off topic! Let's talk it out like the adults we are. Went there just the once, one Boxing Day some time in the 80's- dismal, dismal experience. Too many reasons, but mainly being showered with builders' debris which the ground maintenance crew had kindly left for the opposition to lob at us, and dreadful stewarding- didn't get in 'til half time and had to parade around the edge of the pitch in front of a cage full of animals. Did a gig in the town once. It was a dry do (!) so I was deputed to fetch some beer from the pub over the road. A rat-hole. I seriously thought they would smell my allegiance. Never gladder to get out of a place. Having worked with 'atters, and known some socially in the village, I've always found it an unreal experience. There is an uneasiness in the air, despite the fact that actually (please forgive me) these people were actually QUITE NICE. The best, though, was a lad that I taught in Bletchley. I was impressed that he followed them rather than AFC, Liverpool, Man u etc like the rest of the kids. He always got me a programme from Luton- Watford games, and I always got ours for him. Because he was a real fan supporting his local team. Still hate them though.
I was there and remember being pelted too. Actually it was Dec 27 1982 - we lost 1-0 continuing a run of 1-0 defeats to "them" although we had our revenge later in the season 5-2 at Vicarage Road - still not enough to relegate the bar-stewards though. As a matter of interest, the only time we played "them" at the Kennel on Boxing Day in the 80s was in 1986, a 2-0 win in front of a home crowd only - away fans being barred to prevent trouble after the Millwall debacle 18 months before. It would have been better to have barred the home fans. I take it Gordon that you weren't masquerading as an 'atter to get in that day? It was also "their" first home defeat on the plastic pitch (and the last time we did the double over "them").
Nope. We queued at the away end and got turned away just at kick off because they said it was full. Some of us hung around and were evntually told we could get in. When we got to the away pen there was plenty of room left on the terrace. What really p***ed me off was the fact that there were loads of kids with us being subjected to a rain of nasty stuff, and the police and stewards did NOTHING. I wrote to GT afterwards to describe our treatment, and the man wrote back personally (what else would you expect?). Apparently I wasn't the only one who passed on my experiences.
What did GT write? It rankled with me how he would downplay the local rivalry with "them" - as if, somehow, it didn't matter and that as a club it somehow demeaned us. One of his few foibles in my eyes - or was he just indulging in a bit of reverse psychology - and would fanatically wind-up the players before a derby? Judging by his first 5 games against "them" - 5 losses - perhaps not!
To get back, strictly, to the subject of the thread - only time will tell if we've lost "our Watford" - there have been seismic shifts before, perhaps not as great as this summer, but still very unnerving to the fans of the time - one thinks of: * the selling of Holton (for our younger fans attendances plunged, coach trips were organised by Watford fans to go see Holton play at Northampton...) * the plunge into Division 4 * SEJ buying the club (yes there was trepidation in many fans' hearts at the thought of a "pop-star" buying the club!) * GT leaving for Villa and 'Arry taking over * SEJ selling the club to Petchey * another Italian manager taking over Each, in its own way, potentially as worrying a leap into the unknown as this summer. But I suggest "our Watford" will only remain "our club" if the fans continue to support the team - remember the only constant element in a football club is its fans - not the ownership, management, players or even the ground - there are thousands of us still supporting the team who were around in the 70s and 80s. Nobody else at the club can claim such longevity, can they?
Agreed that all of these were massive changes Vic but what I feel is that the latest changes are more than changes. Before it was a new owner or manager or whatever. This change though means that we do not have youngsters growing up in the club expecting to take their place in the team and knowing we do not have the resources to go and get someone ? better ?. What we are now seeing is a vast complex of players across 3 clubs in 3 nations who will be used as the owners see fit. Our players will come and go on loans or whatever to achieve the objectives. We have never before had the resources to maintain a squad of 39 players and some of them of a quality we could not expect to buy. We seem a bit like a poor man's Manchester City - and for me their change was also more than "normal" I am not complaining -far from it - I welcome it especially as the alternative was most probably liquidation. I just feel that what we have known for many many years has changed dramatically. I look forward to it being not only a success but one which our fans will embrace. "New" Watford can become something we all love but for me it is radically different from everything I have followed for 50 years
Agreed Leo. This is a significant change for the club, and we don't know where it will lead. Interestingly, we keep the biggest symbols a club has - its name and its colours. We have seen how Cardiff fans have reacted to their team strip change because of foreign ownership. I also think back to other teams that have had those sort of changes. I wonder how Newton Heath fans reacted to the changes theor team had imposed on them. First they lost part of their name (the LYR bit) then they name was completely changes and their colours changed too. Over time their fan base changed to other areas of the country. Will that happen to us? Who knows?
From the outside and as a supporter of a club that has not had changed in any significant way (yet), I think it is somewhat sad that clubs such as Watford, Cardiff, Leicester, QPR etc. are going down the route of "outside" influences. As much as this excitement usually generates, certainly in the case of the last 3 teams mentioned, it has still yet to be proven as a step in the right direction in football terms. The financial side may be better than it was but the teams never seem to shows any real signs of improvement despite this money injected on to the transfer kitties. What's going to happen to Watford? God alone knows but I am not convinced the good days are going to return in the near future, and that I also find a little sad. I liken WFC to my club, a relatively small (in the greater scheme of things) club with a loyal family based fan base although we might be leaving the "small" tag behind soon with any luck, if we can extend our capacity to nearly 35,000. I am dreading the day when "foreign" investment comes to Norwich, not so much the money but everything else that comes with it and the club is effectively a play thing for the super-rich brigade. Having said that, if it ever happens I will of course love my club and team, that will never change. Good luck to you Horns and I hope you will remain at least "safe" this season
