I get it Dutch, seriously I do, you like the sound of your virtual voice, in all its patronising and condescending glory. But cmon, ffs, it was a simple question. I wasn't looking for your life story, I was simply asking what people think is, and isn't acceptable in chanting/baiting other fans. If you think nothing is out of bounds, say so, if you think somethings are such as club tragedies but racism isn't, that would also be a good response. Stop trying to create **** and drama where there isn't any, you're meant to be a mod ffs, act like one. This is simply moronic. 5 people chanting hate don't represent the rest of the fans, but one fan who isnt upset by something does?
Happy clapper. your threads just sound to me like the chants you never heard but have whined so much about. You keep choosing not to read the replies properly, so don't be surprised when your ad hominim replies get little response.
Nope, but that wasn't my point. In the 2010/2011 season 43 arrests were made for racist or indecent chanting. It therefore is illegal.
Some of those arrests didn't result in prosecution. The chants at Leeds are unlikely to have led to arrests. It has no more baring on this than the huge number of arrests at Beverley Ladies day.
I asked a similar question earlier and none of the uptight hairshirt brigade had the balls (or the brains) to provide a list. I think 'Does your boyfriend know you're here?' ( as sung against BHA a few years back and for which the ever -courageous local constabulary arrested some hapless teen Tiger) is perfectly acceptable. (Were any Brighton fans reduced to tears or reminded of concentration camps when this was chanted? If so, how many?)
This is what I mean. Why are unfunny racist jokes 'the lowest form of banter' as Craig said (or something like that) and why is an unfunny gay joke not the lowest form? I don't see the difference.
You're misquoting me there ISTPLT (see #184) I didn't mention jokes of any kind, but said "it's possible to wind-up and taunt the opposition without stooping to the lowest depths possible."
Like I said I didn't check the quote but it's essentially the same. You referred to racism as the lowest depths possible. Personally with all the **** going on in the world I can't understand how racist jokes are anywhere near the lowest depths. If it was genuine racial abuse like hitler and stuff then I'd agree but why does society see calling someone a 'paki' as such a taboo? Really it should say more about the person uttering it than anything, because of course usually the person described is not Pakistani at all. To give him the satisfaction of thinking he's really hurt someone by saying something so stupid, when he probably hasn't in fact, is counter-productive.
It's a pretty flawed argument to say some racism is ok and some isn't. You mentioned "genuine racial abuse like hitler". Well don't you think there's a good chance that in 1920s Germany there were plenty of people saying "I only made a joke about dirty Jews, what's wrong with that?" Racism is a mind-set and there's no such thing as a part-time racist who only indulges on Saturday afternoons. I assume you condemn racism and if so you must agree that it can't be regarded as acceptable anywhere.
Craig, you're as isolated as a bacon sarny at a Jewish wedding on this one..... The causes of the rise of the Third Reich and of historical anti semitism in general are complex and historically deep-seated. Football fans were not the cause of either.....
I condemn what I call racism: actual proper abuse or persecution of people based on their race, religion, colour, etc. I don't consider John Terry having a go at Anton Ferdinand on a football pitch racism and therefore I don't condemn it. Although there isn't really a better word for all that nonsense. I don't consider someone saying 'raghead' anonymously on a football forum racist. Simply because it hurts no one at all. People may have had hardships in the past with racial abuse but that doesn't mean they should be sheltered for life from all comment about their race. Many people will have had a hard time coming out or whatever, but it's still okay to make gay jokes. I don't see racism as any different. Personally I wouldn't ever do either of those things, raghead because I don't think it's funny and the Terry thing because I believe I'm more intelligent than having to use that as an insult and it's usually used by people with little understanding of the races involved, an understanding I believe I do have. That's my position. I'm certainly not a racist*, but I do find it irritating when people go on about racism because someone says 'muslim' or something in a perfectly sensible context, when often the person shouting 'racist' doesn't even understand why they're saying it, they just associate certain harmless terms with being racist. *I also find it annoying how anyone using that line is immediately labelled a racist.
Yes I can tell by the tone of your post you're getting annoyed. I'm not sure why because this is a perfectly civilised conversation. First I didn't call you a racist, so why are you defending yourself as not being one? You said "I condemn what I call racism: actual proper abuse or persecution of people based on their race, religion, colour, etc." What you call "proper abuse" isn't just something that occurs with no connection to anything else. A racist will commit proper abuse because they think it's acceptable and that acceptance comes from things like those you regard as minor. I don't know what John Terry said to Anton Ferdinand, but being on a football pitch has no relevence to whether it was racist or not. You; "don't consider someone saying 'raghead' anonymously on a football forum racist because it hurts no one at all." How exactly is a football forum anonymous when the whole world can read it, and who are you to judge what does and doesn't "hurt" people. Why do some on here use racist terms? Why don't they just say moslem or Pakistani or Asian? The reason is they want to inject a bit of hate and that is racist.
You're not telling me anything I don't know. Martin Luther had more to do with German anti-semetism than Hitler and I didn't say football fans caused anything. Racism is a disease and racist fooball supporters are just one symptom of it.
