Highbury Ghost why are you so sure that what Bonstar said didn't happen? "Positive" racism is just as prevelant (if not more so) than racism is. An example might be the amount of times as a white person i get stop and searched by the police when in certain areas which are highly populated by black people. Do i really look like im the one commiting crimes in my middle class clothes and car? Or do police look racist when they only search black people so im good at counter balancing the numbers? I wouldn't be so quick to assume positive racism isn't an issue.
Certainly. I think for most people, there's an assumption that when a 'minority' gets a position and he/she doesn't seem qualified, it's due to 'positive discrimination' which I have my own issues with but I'll get to that later. The problem is, John Barnes and Ince alike very rarely get judged on their individual merit. Some people will see them as reason not to hire black managers rather than just judge the fact they weren't good enough. It happens in all walks of life. One or two people from a minority do something negative and there are those who will use it as a reason to stereotype or to tar that one group with the whole brush. I'm a firm a believer that people should get a job based on merit but we all know nepotism, favoritism, sexism etc. can be a determining factor in some cases. If that is true then I agree it is an issue that needs to be addressed. Positive discrimination can't undo or mend the disadvantaged position someone could be in solely due to their background and I've seen it with my own eyes the damage it can do.
I hoped you'd take the opportunity to think it through and decide maybe she lied to you or even hold your own hands up and say you made it. It makes no sense for a simple reason...the forms you're talking about don't ask for your religious or sexual orientation, so unless your mate was told to add fields to the form for some bizarre reason this little tale is complete fiction.
I can't say I've ever applied for the Police, so I don't know if the forms exist or not. I hold my hands up and say I didn't ever check it out. It was something I was told. Perhaps she was told to put it in her Personal Statement. I apologise if I've caused offense, that was not my intention, merely highlighting something I have been told.
@goonercym By the way your original post asks how many ethnic minority MP's there are and seemed to me to suggest that the House of Commons is in some kind of trouble because of the % of ethnic minority MP's? I don't see what your point is with this. Why do we need to have a certain amount of black or asian, or female or disabled or whatever MP's? Surely it's about who is best for the job?
No i don't think the police have a quota for lesbian muslims rofl - i imagine they do try to get plenty of muslim officers in though. That doesn't change the fact that positive racism is all over the place and just as wrong as plain normal racism.
But the proportion of black British players is very high compared to the general population, no? (incl other races/ethnicities) Wouldn't using your flawed logic there without the double standards mean that there is some 'affirmative' bias there? Or could it *GASP* actually be that clubs choose talented players which they think can help reach their goals. Similarly with managers, clubs individually choose what they think are the best qualified candidates and don't care much for keeping some inter-club racial balance?? Nah there must be a pro black-player anti black-manager conspiracy obviously...
You've no need to apologise as your only repeating something you've told. I think it is fair to say that there is positive discrimination with the police in North Wales.In certain areas they would be expected to be Welsh speaking or undertake to learn the language in a certain timeframe
Well I assume you've applied for a job before. Do you recall any that asked for your religion? Or sexual orientation? Ever? Didn't that detail strike you as a little odd?
I have to agree with gent - i dont see it as an issue that there are alot of black players and not as many black managers - surely this just points to a current level of quality in black football players and lack of quality in black managers available? Maybe 10 years from now when some of the highly talented ethnic minority players retire from footy we may see more people going for these positions? Does no-one think maybe this issue is due to past racism? And that actualy its due to in previous years there being less black players in football and thus less of them now at an age to manage?
My point is why are MP's discussing racism in football when there are so few non white members of the commons.Do you think some of the ****ing MP's we have now are the best for the job ?
@HighburyGhost - Companies are expected to keep record of the % of different ethnic minorites working for them - it most definatly is taken down upon signing a contract with a company and is often taken into acount when hiring for a position by the person doing the interviews.
See this is the sort of obtuse "la la la, I can't hear you" attitude other feared. Why so defensive? It's as if people get angry at the very suggestion of racism and won't even discuss it reasonably. No one says you have to agree, but there is a more nuanced discussion above you seem to have completely ignored so you could have this sarcastic rant.
@goonercym - So because they are mainly white they are not aloud to talk about racism? Racist much? And some of the MP's we have now are very good - others are total idiots - whats your point? That has nothing to do with black people getting job as MP's. These people where voted in by the public. You make ypour point as if by replacing half the MP's with black guys we will all of a sudden have a better government? Sorry but your logic is incredibly flawed.
A lot of job applications do ask you for your ethnicity and religion.My received a job application form only this week that asked for religion and ethnicity.I would add that giving such informaton was voluntary
I don't think I was using a flawed argument there. I think using the general population of this country in comparison of Black British footballers isn't a fair analogy. We're talking about an institution that has a large amount of ethnic players so I'm discussing the issue of race within that context. Of course the general population plays a part in the diversity of it but I'm discussing institutionalized racism. A lot of footballers go on to be managers. My point being is that there have been issues way before it became popular to discuss it about black footballers finding it difficult to break into managing. Now we could easily just dismiss it and say 'well maybe they just aren't good enough'. But when they see their white counterparts who are less qualified easily get into managing, then I don't see how it can be ignored. This where 'positive discrimination' has tried to fix this issue and for the most part, I feel it has failed. Again, do I feel people should get the job based solely on merit? Of course. All of us want that, but let's not be naive and pretend as if a person's race, sex, religion etc. aren't barriers towards getting jobs, especially when it comes managing.
@HighburyGhost - i think he was maybe trying to make the point that others haven't - that it is quite possibly down to the current quality available that we have the current situaion of black players but not managers? Like i said in an earlier post it could be down to the lower levels of black players in previous years leading to less black people qualified to manage currently? And that infact the high level of good black players now will lead to more options for black managers in the future?
