I'm sick of this "long term plan" rubbish. With the squad we have, there's nothing long term about it, we have quality in abundance and should expect success pretty much now. You may settle for another 2-3 years of buidling/ transition/ long term plan but I don't, we've built and built from the Jol era, we're not at a stage where we need yet another couple of years to improve, we're not far off the best in the league in my opinion and our amibitions need to be high otherwise we'll continually be a fairly big club with a small club's mentality. I have real faith in this team, regardless of what I think of AVB, I'm sure he can realise the potential we have and settling for anything less than 4th will just be a failure. How long do you think the likes of Bale & Kaboul etc on will want to stick around if we're not reaching the Champions League? We NEED Champions League for next season otherwise I really do worry about the future of some of our stars. Losing them will set us back even further.
OK I'll give it one more try Mr Impatient. I am sick of short term managers and short term plans that's what we have done for years and years and maybe impatient fans have played a role in this. We have not reached this stage in 5 minutes the squad goes back at least to Jol when we all began to finally feel optimistic that Spurs were getting somewhere. In between we have had setbacks with Chelsea nicking the Dane from us and the Ramos episode. You will keep jumping up and down whatever I say, so carry on, I will just smile because atm I am happy with what Levy has done amd I don't expect it all sorted in 5 minutes. After 50 years of watching Spurs I should be impatient not you.
The basic qualifiers for success this season are, in chronological order: * Silence the press' whispering campaign with a series of wins, with performances to match * Have a reasonable COC campaign where reserves play regularly and youngsters gain experience * Have a better record against MUPLC/City/Arsenal/Cheslea than played eight, won one, drawn three, lost five * Qualify for knock-out stages of Europa League * Have a reasonable FA Cup run, again allowing reserves to play and youngsters to gain experience * Win away games in the league between January and April * Finish in the top four - and without UEFA buttfucking us with their "co-efficients" bullshit * Render CPofL homeless!
A lot will obviously depend on how many key players we can keep fit. How far we go in the cup competitions, etc. For me top 6 minimum would be a realistic target. We are really not any stronger than last year, so unless one of City, Utd, or Chelsea slip up, 4th would be the best. my view is that those three will occupy the top three slots. So, once again, we are likely to be competing with The Goons for 4th - assuming we can keep up yesterday's encouraging display. If Newcastle or Everton have an outstanding year, we may see a challenge from there, also.
I'm jumping up and down on what you say? You're the one that started off by suggesting I don't live in the real world for expecting success and now I'm Mr Impatient. I'd just like to think I'm realistic with my aims. We've had a team that's finished 4th twice in three seasons. We've replaced our manager for someone who is regarded as step up as well as adding some very good additions to the playing staff, despite losing some key players we've replaced them with players of a very similar quality while also witnessing the progression of others over the years such as Bale, Kaboul, Ekotto, Walker, Sandro, Caulker, Townsend etc, so to then say settling for the less than 4th because we're in a transition stage and that we're building for the future is bizarre. We're so much better than what I think some believe here. Maybe some have been used to not reaching the targets we'd have liked over the years and I can sympathise with that but fact is, we DO have a squad that can get 3rd/ 4th and we DO have a squad that can bring home a trophy. I just can't seem to win though at the moment, if I criticise the sacking of our best manager in decades for someone who I don't rate as his replacment then I'm seen as a pessismist. Then when I state how much confidence I have in my squad and how I'd expect some form of success, I'm now impatient...
You put yourself in the frame Mr Impatient Pessimist. As you are fond of telling us all the time you don't rate AVB, ok I get the message but my reply to that is that you or me or anyone else are in no position to rate AVB at Spurs yet. What he has or hasn't done before is of no importance, it's what he does now that counts. Do you have to preface all your comments with the fact that you never wanted AVB? It's boring let's move on. As for your comments on the squad I agree, we have a strong squad who should be up there competing let's hope we are. We have replaced our manager with someone we HOPE is a step up as we HOPE that Dembele, Sig, Vert, Dempsey will replace VDV and Modric in terms of team performance and we HOPE to get top 4.
A few other successes that are desirable rather than essential: * A third striker is added in January * The talk of nurturing youngsters leads to Caulker easing into regular first team football by the end of the season * The talk of nurturing youngsters leads to opportunities for Carroll, Townsend and Smith * A win at Stamford Bridge would be nice...
With a bit of rotation i don't see why it needs to be either. When fit i'd hope that Kaboul and Verts aren't run into the ground each and every game. I know a partnership is important in central defence but we should be able to have 4 CBs that can slot in with each other.
Call me what you like Spurf, I'm not going to trade insults with you, I do that on Twitter with morons, not with people I enjoy interacting with. You're right, I am fond of stating the fact I don't rate AVB, I was under the impression I was on a forum in which we're here to express our opinions on matters... I'll state another 100 times I don't rate AVB if I want, I'm free to do so. I've judged AVB more on his time at Spurs rather than his past experience, admittedly I've stated a couple of times his history at Chelsea is concerning but a lot of my frustration towards him has been due to his poor selections, bad substitutions, poor tactics and treatment of players like Dawson and Huddlestone. That being said, I was full of praise yesterday/ today for the manner in which we played under his guidance against Reading. HOPING we get top 4, HOPING our new signings are better than past players is the exact point I was addressing in terms of having a small club mentality. Man Utd & City don't hope to win the league, they expect it, Chelsea perhaps do too. Arsenal also have an aim to win the title, the last thought of each of their clubs fans, board and players is reaching the top 4, to them it's a given. We have a squad that, in my opinion, is on par with Chelsea's and on par with Arsenal's, I don't think many will disagree and so then I ask why is it people say we'll settle with 5th/ 6th/ 7th and so on. That's not good enough for a squad of our quality. If we feel we can settle with them positions then I'd say there's good chance we won't reach the ambitions of 4th and so on as the hunger and desire isn't there, or at least not at the level as what the 4 mentioned clubs are at. If Utd, City, Arsenal and Chelsea (luckily for Chelsea last year, they still grabbed a CL spot at the expense of us otherwise their mood will have been so different) finish outside the top 4, their season is deemed a huge failure and the likelihood is, their manager would be under intense scrutiny and pressure for not reaching targets. I want our ambitions to match theirs, I don't want to wait another year or two simply because we don't need to, our squad IS brilliant, probably the best I've seen and I'm sure one of the best many others have seen. Stop settling for less and aim a little higher!
Harry thought we would finish 5th and was alway's saying so,so 5th this year would not be a failure,but of course i would like a top 4 finish.
First I am not trying to insult you I called you Mr I & P that's not an insult that is how you described yourself,right? You are on a forum for the exchange of ideas and that is what we are doing. You and I would like the same things for Spurs but you are far quicker to come to judgement than me and that's the difference. Yours is the difficult argument because it is based on judgments that you have made. Your standpoint on AVB is that he has to prove you wrong in your first thoughts that he is the wrong man. I don't have that problem because my mind on him is open I await developments. Small club mentality? What does that mean! Me? The club? That's not a concept I would use myself because as far as I'm concerned Spurs are a big club, it goes without saying. I hope simply because I don't know and if I did there would not be a lot of point watching would there. We agree the squad is probably the best we have seen, but then that's also true for most of the top teams so that in itself is no guarantee of success. I have to settle for what Spurs dish up as I am not playing, merely watching. I watch, I enjoy, and I hope that we win it's as simple as that. So SoS don't take this so seriously I am not trying to have a row here, just an exchange of ideas.
I'm afraid that I am in the bigger picture camp. If we can get instant success then yes please - but Man U an d Ars*n*l have built success by allowing a manager time. I would not have appointed AVB but I am prepared to stick with him and give him every chance - and if that means a step back to go forward then one more season it can be. I have supported Spurs for 61 years and am not about to change whatever happens (give me lattitude as I am assured coming from a Spurs family that I was born with Spurs names on my lips) We are already down on last year in equivalent games and whilst I agree that we had a better squad last year than Chelski and Ars*n*l - we did not do as well as I think they would with our players - WHY ? - because it takes time to get used to success. If AVB is the right man - and I sincerely hope he is then this season may be used to create a move towards the top two at least - Harry and Martin Jol topped out at 4th - if you had a crystal ball tell me which of you would not settle for 6th this year followed by 2nd or 1st the year after.
Levy got rid of our only ever top 4 manager (he did it twice), without any explanation as to why he had to go (and all of his coaching staff), and we've brought in a whole load of new players, despite our losing our (one) top player. Why would you do that unless you expect the new man (and players) to guarantee us top 4? Sorry, but we are not 'Pool. We are (currently) a top 4 side, and I expect the same this season. I'm prepared to give AVB (and Levy) the benefit of all the doubt I have about his tactics and failings at Chelsea. If he doesn't deliver, then he (and my fellow Spurs fans) have got to expect that I am going to be critical.
I would rather win the Europa than finish 4th, that will be the mark of success I'm looking for, to return us to the European 'premier division'. Naturally if we don't win anything but make CL I'll be happy with that, but for me silverware now comes before CL, particularly FA Cup or Europa.
I do take it as an insult though Spurf, I haven't described myself as that, it's what I felt people like yourself have tried branding me as. I take it with a pinch of salt but I still find it insulting, whether it was meant to be or not. The small club mentality is the idea that fans on here (not aimed purely at yourself, apologies if it seemed that way, it was a general observation from what I've seen from plenty of fans) don't seem to want to set high standards in case of failure, perhaps you do and I'm just not seeing things correctly but for instance, you speak of hoping for a top 4 finish, I merely expect it. Like you say we want the same thing, I just think I'm perhaps more confident we can reach our goals hence the reason I expect it. I too don't want to row, nor do I think we really are (I'm sure both of us had many worse things said about one another ), believe me when I say I have a huge amount of respect for yourself, PNP and YV for the way you guys manage to keep the Spurs board such a fantastic place to speak on. I've mentioned many a time that I've joined countless Spurs forums over the past few years and this is the only one I've stayed on for longer than a couple of weeks, you mods along with the great bunch of posters we have has contributed massively to this and I think as a board, we should be proud of having a great community. Lets just agree on the fact we both have similar aspirations for the club, because it seems we do, we just have different ideas about it and I just perhaps want/ expect things quicker, which I wouldn't put down as to being impatient, just being confident.
Certainly at the expense of Gallas, and possibly nudging Dawson aside as well. He'll get a run of games in the cups, so if he performs well he would deserve a chance in the league as well. Besides, we always pick up injuries at centre back, so having someone who can come in for a run of games is important. There are three very good reasons for Harry to go: * Winning just one away game between January and May * A poor return against the other top five teams - one win, three draws and five losses * His tinkering with the team had a disastrous effect on our results and performances
