Glad to see that you are almost back in touch Dan. I will not go into my present condition for fear of you thinking that I am plastered.
Thanks Frenchie. I have seen your posts after a match and afew glasses of wine, so I am used to slightly pissed posts lol.
Hi OFH, I worked for the Met in London not the West Midlands Police (who have a bad reputation of only telling half truths - Birmingham 6 for instance) but even so still feel let down by the actions of that force. As for the altered statements, all statements are done individually and very rarely does one Officer show another Officer their Statement. In such a big incident as this there would have been a team going round taking statements from all those concerned. Once the statement is taken the Police Officer will sign it and that is the last he or she will see of it, they do not get a copy to keep and if they go to court may only use the notes taken at the time. I certainly believe that it is after these statements have been submitted that they were altered, an officer at the ground will only be able to see a small aspect of what is going on. It would not take much, an odd change of word here and there in a statement for it to take on a different meaning. I would think that only a small few were in on the cover up, hence no whistle blower.
What you say makes a lot of sense Charlie - there is no way 164 officers would be persuaded to alter their evidence - but a small deicitful few could have "doctored" the documents. Shame as they wrongly bring our exceelent police force into some discredit
Welcome back Dan. Independance day here on Sat, although, I've just been told I don't ahve Monday off work. Well, nearly the weekend ! Mis saludos a todos !!
In some ways the thought of a few people covering it up is more worrying. It's reassuring that there are relatively few rotten apples, and if Charlie is correct, hopefully most of those responsible will be close to the end of their police careers. But it's alarming that a small number of people could have the power and inclination to act on such a scale. I know this isn't a like-for-like comparison, but imagine if a similar thing had happened in the House of Commons. I think most of us understand that in a party of 200 MPs, roughly 164 of them would at times be minded to focus on the elements of the truth that represent their party in a favourable light, and say as little as they can about things that make them look bad. It would worry me a lot more if the MPs spoke relatively freely, and their party whips pulled the plug on BBC Parliament and amended what they had said in Hansard.
Got Leyton Orient v Brentford on - for LO Lee Cook is playing, for B Toumani Diagouraga and Harry Forrester.
Evening all and welcome back Dan.... Regarding the changing of statements and the officers concerned not knowing. A PC who was at Hillsborough that day called into 5-Live this morning - the last paragraph from his statement had been completely removed and he had not been aware until yesterday when he saw his statement on the internet. I believe that the changes were made when the documents were requested for various enquires and reports, but the originals were kept and that is why after all these years the doctoring can be seen. Whilst all of the cover-up activity is absolutely disgusting, I share the view of Zen in that now anyone asking genuine questions as to the behaviour of the fans outside the Leppings Lane end will be shouted down. Anyone who does is accused of looking to blame the victims which again misses the point..clearly the victims have no blame but some of their fellow fans have to carry some guilt for their behaviour. Shortly after this tragedy the BBC showed a documentary that included Police video footage of the scenes outside the Leppings Lane end and I know what I saw on that documentary...
I have read a few of the original and amended statements that can be found on-line and it is fair to say that in some cases the alterations were made because of bad English. However in some of the documents changes were made by legal eagles who were tasked to go through them all and change anything that showed the police in a bad light. There are also witness statements there from Yorks police, together with instructions to keep a copy, so that if an officer was questioned by the West Midlands force they would know what had been written earlier. As it turned out the investigating force chose not to interview anyone and just take what documents were put before them as the truth. In the original documents there are comments about officers having to go into shops to help the owners who were being intimidated by fans into selling large quantities of alcohol that they were trying to ration. I would agree that some of the fans would have been anything but angelic and as an aside would say that the only time I felt seriously threatened at the Vic was when we were playing Liverpool.
The linesman ought to answer the question of why he did not do his job. He has to check the net before the half. This is not the first instance of this either!
evening all. Gotta say, re the 96, the coverage on TS has been exceptional. Heartbreaking and yet covered with dignity and respect. Well done TalkSport, you don't always get it right, but yesterday, you definitely did. Welcome back Dan!! So good to see you!
Hi there ladies and gents.... Now into my last week in India. We are leaving Bhopal tomorrow where the volunteers has been doing projects with rescued children,women in the slums, the mentally ill and an ashram where elderly people with no means go to end their lives. As usual it has been a compelling experience. .I enclose a link to the volunteers blog here:http://bhopalvolunteers2012.tumblr.com/ . If you scroll down you will see a picture of me wearing a scarf... You have to guess which one is me The work in the slums and with the elderly has been truly memorable. Volunteers have raised enough to pay school fees and medical costs for 27 children, tile and sanitise a wash area in a shelter for rescued platform children, and pay for a worker to work with women suffering from domestic violence in the slums. All in all a good job well done. I think it will be the last time I do this though. I have been smitten with the bhopal belly for the last three days. Anyway all things being equal we go off on R & R to varanasi tomorrow ( one of the holiest cities , on the ganges, and also a great Buddhist centre) and then off to Agra.... back in the UK next friday.... Then retirement starts properly! Been following the games of course on the net.... Seems like a period of consolidation is necessary. All the best one and all, with particular thanks to sponsors
Morning all from a chilly and windy bandit country - dentist this morning with my lovely dentist Tanya, it makes the visit worthwhile. A special good morning to you Yorkie and much respect to you and the volunteers in Bhopal - you should all be very proud of the work you have all done. I think the whole Union Carbide story puts "cover up's" into some perspective! Have a good rest and we look forward to your retirement stories with a small amount of envy! Thanks in advance for the frothy AK
Morning all from rural France. Bright and sunny here, but certainly cooler than we are used to. Will need to find the duvet soon! Well done to Yorkie. Life is different to say the least for us. Brittany Ferries crew have walked out leaving Brits stranded was on the news today. The company has made losses of £56m and is trying to change working hours and rates of pay for their workers. Many of the ex-pats that we know used to travel with the company until they put up the fares to ridiculous amounts. When they first started it was to transport cauliflowers from Brittany to the south west of England quickly, but became a very successful transporter of holiday makers. They are now in the position where freight is the main traffic carried and they will have to make up their minds if they want to get the private motorist back again.
Thank you w_y We went to the union carbide factory last week... nothing done in all the time since it happened.. .the entire water table is poisoned and people live and graze their animals all around. Many children have stunted growth. Interestingly since last year all the wall around the site which had anti union carbide signs etc has now been painted over because an American (!) firm have been contracted to detoxify the site... poisonous waste will be sent to Germany (!) for decontamination etc. and greetings Frenchie... oh dear Brittany Ferries was our piece of luxury on our channel crossings..
No - you've go me there Yorkie - was hoping you were wearing a hornets scarf to give us a clue Fantastic job you and others are doing out there. Look forward to seeing you back here more
Góðan daginn till allra. Cappuccino, coffee, tea donuts and fruit are on the bar. Frothy cappuccinos for for al, HH, Leon and W_Y Coffees for COYH, Frenchie, Kev rob theo and vic-rijrode Strong coffee for Sandy Milky coffee for Yorkie Espresso for SuffolkHorn Strong black coffees for Bragi Norway and zen Black coffee half hot half cold and no sugar for Charlie Tea for BHD jsybarry jerzeypie Lloydinio and BCFCRed Hot chocolate with marshmallows for BBW Tea with skimmed milk and no sugar for GG Tea and cake for Minx Caramel latte for Hornette Una Paloma for Mexican Hornet Redwine for NZ as he is so ahead of us in time
