There have been plenty of moans here about H&S regulations and quite often rightly so. However from what I have heard today a lot of people would not have lost their lives if Hillsborough had not been used due to the fact that it did not meet the safety regulations in force at the time. Who should accept the blame for that? The football club or the FA.
Friend of mine had a souped up Capri but was pulled over by the police just about every week till he got so fed up he sold it and bought a Vauxhall Chevette - he was never stopped again
Not at all minx, a neighbour of mine when I lived in Corby, kept his classic Capri in his garage and only brought it out when it was dry and sunny, I was so envious of him and when he moved I was gutted as I could no longer see it. I would love to have another one, I have had 2 over the years, my first the blue one then in the late 80's early 90's I had a bronze coloured one! Then I was called the bloke with the Bronze Capri, everyone knew the car at RAF Northolt back then Ah the nostalgia
There's no easy answer to that - where do you stop in the quest to apportion blame? Maggie Thatcher for her war cabinet approach to the hooliganism problem in the mid 80's? The police for the heavy-handed response to her pressure? Manchester United fans for their country-wide rampage during their spell in Div 2 a decade earlier, which actually led to the fencing & segregation regulations? British Rail a decade before that, whose Football Special Trains meant affordable travel for hooligans and a huge increase in the incidence of violence around the country? Apportioning blame is actually probably the easy part - with everything that has contributed in the lead up to the situation, what is nigh on impossible is someone accepting it.
Doubly so if you're talking about a club or city. Sheffield Wednesday are apologetic for their shambles of a stadium in 1989, but would Wednesday fans accept their club being considered culpable for something considerably stronger than accidental death? Much like Evertonians over the last 23 years, would Blades fans accept the smears on their city if the city's current emergency services and people were smeared as a result? What is special about today is that few if any are questioning that we have gotten to the truth. Even in another 23 years, is it realistic that we will get the same level of agreement on whether justice has been done?
My feeling is that the FA should not have used the stadium knowing that there were safety issues. I suspect that they turned a blind eye to it simply because they wanted to have as many fans at the game as possible. I would however say that today we witnessed the house of commons at it's very best. No half truths, silence while the leaders stated their feelings and for once you felt that the speakers did show that they can be in touch with the world outside of the Westminster bubble.
Someone in the year above me at school died in that disaster - he was best friends with the brother of one of my friends. When I got to school there was talk that he'd died, but I didn't believe it until we found out there was a full school assembly as we only ever had those on the last day of term. There is a permanent memorial to him at Parmiter's. I just hope the report helps his parents and younger sister make a bit more sense of things. They're saying that up to 41 lives could have been saved if the emergency services had been better which begs the question, if the policing had been better, would it have even happened?
Morning all, at long last something that looks a bit like rain. It has been several months since we last had any and all of the ground is bone dry. There has been a news report to say that the grape harvest will be the lowest in quantity for 20 years. No doubt this will reflect in the price of a bottle of wine.
Up to 2 Euros a bottle no doubt - my heart bleeds! Miserable day up here - 3C and pouring with rain. My braindead 18yo just trudged off in the rain to catch the bus to college, no raincoat as he refuses to wear one - I suspect he will have a miserable day. Must be a sign of manhood these days.
-3C is not funny in the first half of September. Last winter was very cold here, but normally we only see sub-zero temperatures in January and February. There is one gardener that we watch who has tomatoes out in his vegtable plot in mid-February, each one in it's own little protective fleece and bubble wrap housing. By the start of May he has fruit ready for eating most years.
Sign of a young man with a cold. Sæl öll. Cappuccino, coffee, tea donuts and fruit are on the bar. Frothy cappuccinos for for al, HH, Leon and W_Y Coffees for COYH, Frenchie, Kev rob theo and vic-rijrode Strong coffee for Sandy Milky coffee for Yorkie Espresso for SuffolkHorn Strong black coffees for Bragi Norway and zen Black coffee half hot half cold and no sugar for Charlie Tea for BHD jsybarry jerzeypie Lloydinio NZ and BCFCRed Tea with skimmed milk and no sugar for GG Hot chocolate with marshmallows for BBW Tea and cake for Minx Caramel latte for Hornette Una Paloma for Mexican Hornet We have 4C and there is still snow on the fjäll after yesterday. The veðurstofa says more rain for today and the roads are still wet from yesterdays rain.
OFH - my guess was that for BB it was a dash and then 3º i.e. +3º rather than -3º. Still chilly though - it was+5.1º here. Tis now +10.2º and sunny. Had you asked you could have had some of our August rain - we had over 200mm of it
Hillsboro - my thoughts are that it was not what happened on the day - tragic and awful though that was - but the cover up that is really shocking - changing 164 police statements to shift the blame onto the fans was inexcuseable. I can understand people making errors that lead to disasters - The Marchioness, Bradford Hillsboro all spring to mind but to denigrate the victims is awful
Morning all from a bright & sunny bandit country, although it must have been a chilly start to the day. I have the day off as I am on my speed awareness course this afternoon in bandit central . Thanks for the coffee AK..
I have to agree with Leonardo regarding the cover-up of the changing of statements relating to the Hillsborough disaster. What I have a problem with is that this now plays into the hands of the Liverpool fans are innocent types. These fans have a history of trouble at games (Heysel 1987, Hillsborough 1989 and Athens 2007 spring to mind) whether they instigated it or not, the Liverpool fans became heavily involved. I am of the opinion that there were failings on the side of policing the fans who broke into the stadium (before the Police had the gates opened), the organisation of these fans once allowed into the stadium and the provision of a safe environment for those who had arrived in a timely manner; also the behaviour of the fans who arrive too late to enter the ground must still be questioned as it was their actions which were the catalyst for everything that followed. Unhappily with the news of a cover-up I feel what really happened will never now be ascertained, as any reasoned comment will be blanked out by the cries of "Cover-Up".
Good Morning All, thanks for the coffee Ak glad you found my pants amusing. As a retired police officer I can only feel embarressed and deeply hurt that a service I proudly represented should have stooped so low to cover the backs of those in charge by falsifying statements and proportioning blame onto the innocent people who had suffered and died. I realise that the Police have not always appeared whiter than white but I can assure you that 99% of all police officers (from insp downwards) do so to the best of their ability, to make this country a safe and law abiding place to live in. The problem starts with some of the Senior Officer that know how to pass exams, sit on boards and have the right connections. Not all senior officers (Note senior not superior as no Police Officer is superior to another just some have higher rank) are inept but sadly there are some. These are the ones who are also good at blaming others and never themselves. What has happened at Hillsborough is criminal and those responsible should be brought to Justice and please God not just poor scapegoat but those higher up that decided to cover up thier ineptitudes.
Afternoon all. I finally am able to get on the internet at dads!! The only problem is now the laptop is playing up!!!! So how is everyone?
Charlie, I can well understand your feelings of hurt after yesterday, I think that if I had worked for that force I would have felt the same. What I don't quite understand is how no one blew the whistle on what had happened. Would the officers who had filed their reports not seen that they had been altered? How quite so many people knew what came out was untrue and didn't leak anything seems surreal. Was there such a culture of fear for the job that no one spoke out?
