I don't understand how anyone can turn round and say it's still the fans fault. Camerons statement says ''Second, the families have long believed that some of the authorities attempted to create a completely unjust account of events that sought to blame the fans for what happened. Mr Speaker, the families were right.'' How much clearer do you want it to be?
Off topic but the way Liverpool fans and the club gloss over the disgusting 100% to blame actions of their fans at Heysel sickens me. All the fuss they make every year and last in particular about refusing to play on the anniversary of Hillsborough and make every other club fall in line with their wishes, however you can absolutely, cast iron guarantee that if they were due to play a Champions League final on the anniversary of Heysel they'd wouldnt bat a fookin' eyelid. Hipocrisy at its absolute, sickening worst.
I posted comments on their board once saying, "JUSTICE FOR THE 39" They were deleted within 2 minutes.
The police were responsible for opening the gates, had they not done so, the people that died would probably still be alive. To then change the timeline and statements, to cover this up, was utterly disgusting. There's no ambiguity here, the police ****ed up, they tried to cover it up and it's taken 23 years for truth to actually come out. It's an utterly shameful situation, as football fans, that could have been any of us.
I know it sounds awful, but the one thing for me that stands out is that the police's lies about Hillsborough are the reason I can't stand at football. Bastards.
At Hullsborough that glorious night I dont mind admitting I was momentarily concerned. They still had something like 2 turnstiles open and there mustve been 5000 fans outside crammed into a small area just as the Liverpool fans had. Obviously it wasnt as bad but it showed how the ground was woefully inadequate.
I think the difference is, that Heysel was always put down to the Liverpool fans, it's taken 23 years to get confirmation that Hillsborough wasn't. I can see the double standards, what happened at Heysel was equally disgraceful, but I don't think two wrongs make a right.
Im not saying that and I appreciate the justice element runs deep throughout Hillsborough but that is NOT the reason they refuse to play on the anniversary. They dont play cos people tragically died and the gloss over of Liverpool fans committing nothing short of manslaughter on a separate occasion is a disgrace.
Had they not done so people would have died outside the ground. In hindsight we can all say they made the wrong decision, but ultimately they were put in that position and forced to react. Accidents like this happen, it was avoidable but so many disatsers are. The only thing people should take account for is as you have rightly said the disgusting cover up afterwards.
If anything they should be refusing to play on the anniversary of Heysel to respect the deaths that their fans caused.
Liverpool had the smaller end of the ground, despite having the larger support. The police officer in charge had never been to a semi at Hillsborough before. There was little or no trouble outside, the ground but he still had the gates opened despite being told not to by the club staff, if the middle entrance to the stand had been shut, there would have been no crush. If you watch the BBC footage from the day, you will see a copper, stood holding onto the top of the pitch side fence, with one hand and punching people trying to climb out, to stop them. The first help, came from the Forest fans, not the police, who then stopped the ambulances entering the ground. A total police lead cock up from the start. According to the actor and Arsenal supporter Tom Watt, Heysel was a disaster waiting to happen. he was there a few years earlier for a final.
So far from the truth it's laughable. If the fans hadn't created a situtation where the only solution was to cage them up like animals to stop them attacking each other then the disaster wouldn't have happened and you could still stand.
I know you're probably right, but I swear every time I see you post it's something pro-Liverpool or anti-Man U. Are you sure you don't support Liverpool as well as City? Even though it's insignifcant compared to the 96 who died, it's still a very good point. Surely if common sense is applied we should now go back and say "Actually standing at football matches is perfectly safe after all - go ahead and fit standing areas." Not that it'll happen of course.
Personally, I'd rather we deal with these issues ourselves in the football world. Arguably the sons of tramp-whores who killed our fans in Istanbul should have got far steeper sentences, and the reaction from Turkish police, media and justice figures was appalling, but Leeds fans quietly refuse to visit the country again and we cope in our own way. There's nothing I'd hate more than a constant media bandwagon fuelled by a do-gooder justice campaign. The scousers have another way of doing things, although in fairness, much of that is driven by wannabes trying to look as dedicated as possible rather than the actual families themselves who are more discreet about their campaigning for truth which has resulted in today's shocking revelations. E.g. people who were angry that the Hillsborough flame isn't in their current badge and is instead on the back of the shirt. Wallowing in grief is the phrase. As for South Yorkshire Police, **** them. Bunch of twats, always have been, always will be.
The polices lies made out that standing was not safe and it was the fans' fault. This was not true, standing is safe. Erik was right QED.
LFC apologised to Juventus, this was acknowledged and accepted by the Italian club who remain 'freinds' till this day. A charity match is played on the anniversary of Heysel between LFC and Juve fans every year. There are no lies or cover ups or any request for justice about what happened in Belgium. Also how other clubs deal with the anniversary of their tragedies is up to them, because we deal with ours a little differently it is wrong? You two are idiots. As for the op and other members, your words are appreciated.
Police lies are not the reason you can't stand at the KC, simple as. Do you honestly believe there would be terracing now if Hillsborough had occured but the police admitted all responsibility and were prosecuted?
You can't just blame the police, the police didn't tell people to turn up ticketless and then barge into the stand, common sense surely? I believe the fans who barged their way in, the ticket sellers and club who obviously sold too many tickets and the police for not controlling it as well as they could have are to blame, everyone played a part and they need to accept that, it was a tragedy that could have been averted, it's more of a shame that young children died imo. People will never learn though, people still charge onto buses and end up with people getting crushed etc, it's the same at concerts. Also agree with the above mentioned about other tragedy's not getting national coverage such as Bradford.
