Switching back to 4-2-1-3 is essential for us to reach our potential.

We lack style, creativity and flowing movement in a 4-4-2.

We're far too easily dealt with.

Our two strikers are just tanked by the other CB's in the air. Neither can win headers from goal kicks. Our RB is exposed, because Ben Arfa as a RM, in a 4-4-2, is required to do defensive work, and even though he tries, he's poor defensively, and he's not really a player that knows how to position himself. Plus we get our RB to run forward, which means leaving the right side pretty much exposed and unguarded. In the center of the pitch, in a 4-4-2, without Tiote, we're just totally outplayed by any side with flair down the center. Barry Bannan, Ireland and Weimann just cruised past our central midfield. We're far too flat in this formation.

In our 4-2-1-3 formation, we had a system that worked so well for the players we have.

I'd play this vs Everton. I'm pretty sure Tiote will be fit for next game, and http://www.journallive.co.uk/nufc/n...h-neck-injury-is-healing-well-61634-31768096/ - Perch seems to be getting along fine.

Ba------Cisse-------Ben Arfa

--------Cabaye------------

----Jonas------Tiote-------

Santon--Colo--Saylor--Perch

------------Krul--------------

In this formation, you have two midfielders at the back, usually Jonas and Tiote but it can work with Anita/Bigi ect, who's main role is to provide defensive cover, they will always be there to harass opponents down the center, and stop them creating and threatening.

In a 4-4-2, you basically have two CM's who are required to do several different duties, and aren't really in specific roles. They need to be there to defend, but they aren't always in a position to do that. Once you get past that flat 4 man midfield, you're threatening the defence. This is why Villa and Chelsea tore through us too often, because we were two flat, and they just passed and moved through us.

In the 4-2-1-3 formation, you have forwards and an attacking mid behind them, who do the damage to the oppoenent, as they have the freedom from defensive work to do so. If your attack fails, and your opponent wins back possession and pushes forward, you always have two DM's acting as a blockade, as they are given specific positions to occupy.

A central midfielder in a 4-4-2 is given too much to do, in our case. We need to set the likes of Cabaye a specific job, so he can focus on that. As a standard central mid in a 4-4-2, he doesn't have the freedom to do what he does best. And Tiote in a 4-4-2, he's technically not a defensive midfielder. He's just a CM like Cabaye, and CM's in a 4-4-2 are required to play a part in an attacking move, they can't just sit back, so if Tiote is part of a forward move that fails, and is too far up the pitch, then the opposition can just waltz through our midfield, as there's no blockade. The 4-4-2 is harming both Cabaye and Tiote. Cabaye needs freedom, and Tiote needs to be able to sit in his position, and to be there as the defensive mid, for most of the game.

In a 4-2-1-3, Everyone has a specific role and duty, they all get a specific job to do, and they can all focus on it. Sure they can aid in other area if needed, but for the most part, they are always there to do their job. Having two defensive mids makes us a lot more comfortable and gives us a lot more freedom and potential. The forwards and Cabaye all have more freedom to move and create, and with their extra freedom, that'll be 4 top class players all raping the opposition together, and if they fail, there's two defensive mids there to smash the opposition counter attacks. It's a lot less likely that players are caught out of position, and everyone has their mind set on a task, and also, with the coaches and Pardew organising them, they all link up very well.

We just don't have the squad to play a 4-4-2 formation. We have a lot of flair, skill and vision, but we're not really a side that packs enough of a wallop to play 4-4-2. In a 4-2-1-3, we link up together, we're better organised, we move better, you can see the potential, and everyone is happy in their positions. The forwards have freedom, the defensive mids get to do their job without having to worry too much about producing quality up front, having to go forward and getting caught out, and most likely bollocked by the manager.

4-2-1-3 is the way forward!

 

Stick with the 4-4-2, its the most balanced formation

 

Its not formations that are the problem Tash. We showed last year we are flexible and can operate successfully in 442, 433, 451 or 4213. The problem we have currently which we didn't have last season is lack of form of key elements of the team. Pardew skillfully pinpointed the exact problem. At present we have one key figure performing to a high level (Benni). At any given time last year we probably had a minimum of 4.

Find the form of the players, the form of the team and formations will fall into place.

 

We can still do well in a 4-4-2, but a 4-2-1-3 formation is the formation that could see us reach our potential. A 4-4-2 will hold us back.

 

Would play Anita over Jonas. Jonas has had an awful start to the season, his passing is terrible. I agree we should play 4-2-3-1/4-3-3. Pardew keeps on going on about wanting us to control the game with possession football, it's pretty impossible for us to do that when every game we're outnumbered in cm meaning when it does go to the cm's they usually have to play it backwards anyway which results in it being lumped forward or just the 2 cb's fannying on with the ball. We've made efforts to try and play it out from the back but we lack the urgency to do it, not sure if it's just because we haven't got that extra man in the middle or they just can't do it (doubt the latter though, espcially with Santon and Colo)

 

4-4-2 is the best for Newcastle. You need the extra striker for some firepower

 

Tash, my advice:

Send this to Alan Carr on twitter. Ask him to give it to his dad, who in turn is to give it to Pardew. By this time next week, we'll be playing a 4-2-1-3...

 

Its just about opposition really and what suits. At present if we played Man U I would revert back to 442 and play Shola, possibly dropping Cisse. Why? Because they are yet to resolve their aerial weakness which ourselves and Blackburn exposed last year.

I agree in general that 4213 is our most effective formation. It gets the best from Benni for a start as it eases his defensive burden. It also allows for seamless transition to 433 or 451 dependant on match situation. It should essentially be our stock formation. However I like the Pardew school of thought of being adaptable and picking teams and formations purely to win. As I've noted many times I expect us to play carpet football, its inbuilt into our ethos. However the odd direct tactic to secure the points is all good.

I'll say again though, formations rarely get discussed when players are in form. I'm not for a moment suggesting tactical solutions are minor, in modern PL football tactics are very important. But they'll always play 2nd fiddle to the form of players.

 

I completely agree with you on that. But a 4-4-2 only works with Shola, and he's out. That's what I meant about not packing a punch, we just don't with only Ba and Cisse, we need to be more technical, and keep it on the ground. That's why getting Carroll would have been great. We could play two totally different games.

 

I dont agree

 

The reason for the poor form is several key players not "up to speed" yet. Ba has looked miles better than Cisse for me and Cabaye has been non existent the last few games. Whether that's down to the busy first 2 weeks of the season or Ramadan or players having their heads turned in the window OR just everyone looks slack when Cheikh ain't around they need to start playing better.

 

Although HBA seems to be our only big hitter performing at the moment, Pardew is a major reason for our early season poor form. He's started 4-4-2 in all three league games and it just hasn't worked. Granted he changed it around to good affect at h/t in the first two games.

However my biggest grumble is with our set plays. Pardew confirmed in the summer we would be working on these, but I'm not sure what we've been working on because from what I can see all we did against Villa was get Krul to launch any free kick from around the the halfway line in to their box and it was clear to everyone other than AP that it wasn't working, our set plays were pathetic to watch. Why we couldn't just play short and start again from the back instead of hoof ball in to the box is beyond me.

Four points was the target I had in mind from our first three games, however after beating Spurs we should have been aiming for 6 points as minimum requirement. All of a sudden our next game is Everton away and we could be looking at 4 points from 4 games. Very early in the season mind, but with the injuries, poor performance against Villa and the poor points return in that match I just feel a bit deflated after a more than decent start against Spurs.

On a plus note, If Colo was to miss any match this season I would want it to be Everton at Goodison, reason being that they are very direct and Colo endured a bit of a nightmare against Fellaini there last season. It's the only game where I'd be happier with a Saylor and Willo combination over Colo playing.

Lets hope Pardew is bold and plays the 4-3-3/4-2-1-3 as so far this season that's when we've looked our best. On a plus note we are bound to win this game as Tiote is back!

 

4-3-3 = In form Newcastle.

4-4-2 = Gay.

 

4-2-1-3 Gayer.

 

Simply not true for me. To blame Pardew for lack of form is just daft. We started last season rigid 442 for 12 or so games. It worked. The big hitters not performing is nothing to do with Pardew. It is partly down to them but mainly circumstance. As for the set pieces, the phrase "you can lead the horse to the water but you can't make him drink" springs to mind. Pardew has been aware enough to pinpoint the issue and put the lads to work. I'd imagine he has been thorough like all his work. The lads simply have not delivered on the pitch in this regard, they need to improve. he can help them so much but Cabaye and Benni need to put the work in to put it right.

I look at some of underperformers as below:

Cabaye - Simple this one, he has 20 minutes of pre season following an extended break after the hardest season in his career followed by a first national team tournament.
Demba and Cisse - Same as Demba last year, purely down to ramadan interupting their preparation and conditioning. They'll find their feet soon enough and its no good people saying "that's not an excuse". It just comes down to the basics of fuelling a body to undertake sports, it has to impact.
Tiote - Missing in action.
Saylor - Returning from a long injury lay off

The only thing Pardew may take responsibility for is that he'll have had to prepare the team differently this year to last year to take into account the earlier start, extra games and travelling. Maybe he has had to adjust our approach to the season, realising we couldn't go off like a train again?

 

Even though we might win games in a 4-4-2, it will only be because of sparks of brilliance, and they don't come around every game, we need to play our favoured formation, which brings with it good performances and quality.

Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Ba and Cisse are all at 50% max most games in the 4-4-2.

Pardew IS to blame, because he pays opponents too much respect and cares too much about playing to please Ba and Cisse. A 4-3-3 is what sees us play our best football, and if Cisse or Ba complain, then tough cack.

Cabaye was average in most of his games last season, when we played 4-4-2, but he was awesome when we played 4-3-3. He played in that formation at Lille, and he played his best football in a 4-3-3 in a black and white shirt.

Pards should also realise that 4-4-2 doesn't make us less vulnerable to goals really, unless we sacrifice Ben Arfa and play a more defensive minded RM.

We should play to our strengths and go for a 4-3-3. We have the talent now, we can play 4-3-3 and rotate Ba and Cisse in the striker position.

A 4-4-2 only worked last season, because we played it for so long before, that the players were used to system, and we had Shola. If you play 4-4-2, you need a player that can harass opposition CB's from GK's, and only Shola seems to be able to do that in our side.

We did win a lot of games in a 4-4-2, but here are some results that are worth a look at -

Wigan 1-0 - We only JUST managed to scrape a win in this game, and we played as average as we did against Villa and Spurs. We won through a moment of quality from Cabaye.
Swansea - 0-0 - To be fair, we did have some chances that we should have taken, but Swansea found it easily to deal with our 4-4-2.
Villa 2-1 - A Cisse dream goal, but up until then, Villa were as threatening as they were against us last week, and we only just nicked it. It was an even game.
1-1 Mackems at home. Mackems sat back and hit us on the counter, and could have been 0-2 up at one point, if it weren't for a brilliant save by Krul. In this game, we played 4-4-2, and Cisse was absent, and Ba not much better. The mackems easily dealt with our 4-4-2. Ben Arfa and obviously Shola, were the only players that made real impact. We won through a last gasp Shola winner. Again, too close for comfort.

We did win games last season in a 4-4-2, but we often played average and only won out of a moment of brilliance, or a moment.

There's nothing wrong with playing poor and winning, in a way, but too many games were way too close for comfort last season, in our 4-4-2. They could have easily gone the other way. Our defence really carried us through at times.

A 4-4-2 can sometimes be good, against the right team. Like when we battered Manure with long balls.

So, in our 4-4-2, we can expect to win our fair share of games, but expect average performances, and riding our luck. Or we can go back to 4-3-3, and actually perform well, and truly destroy sides.

In the first season up, we played well a lot, and lost too many games. Last season, in our 4-4-2, we played average, but won because of our new found quality.

Towards the end of the season, we played fantastic and won so many games. We were no longer a side of individuals, we were a fantastic side, that tore through sides and everyone produced quality together.

Cabaye was playing orgasmic passes, and setting up chances. Ben Arfa was basically spanking opponents. Ba's movement was making space for others, and he was unlucky not to get goals himself, and Cisse had all the ammunition he needed to score those wonder goals.

Pardew has basically bottled it and went 4-4-2, instead of just playing our 4-2-1-3/4-3-3 system which clearly gets the best out of our players.

We even looked more comfortable defensively in a 4-3-3.

 

Apologies for the lack of paragraphs in that last post.

 

I think to say Pardew has bottled it is on the harsh side. However he also shouldn't be immune from the odd bit of criticism just because of last seasons success, and for me if he'd done things slightly differently in the first three games we'd be sat here with 6 points, possibly even 7 (we were by far the better team 2nd half against Chelsea in a 4-3-3, if this was played from the start things could have been a lot different).

He also deserves credit for not being afraid to change things when not working as shown at H/T in our first two games. It should be remembered that this is only Pardew's second season managing a team in Europe, so mistakes will be made at times. I have every faith that Pardew will learn 100% more from this season than he did from the last one and that come the end of the season he'll have improved massively as a manager. Just like our younger players AP will also only learn through experience.