1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

What is the REAL problem?

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by StJohn_Red_Legend, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. StJohn_Red_Legend

    StJohn_Red_Legend Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,658
    Likes Received:
    12
    Are we really suffering from a lack of a goal scorer, or is the problem more deep-rooted?

    So far this season we have singularly failed to register a goal from open play – the two we have scored have come from set pieces. But is this the real concern? To my mind it is a problem, but the real problem, the elephant in the room, is, in my opinion, the failure to perform reliably at the back.

    We know, oh so well, that the pressure last season was to score goals. What was done to resolve this in the close season? Nothing, not a single thing.

    With respect to Borini, he’s not the finished article, and his recent history in top flight football does not suggest he was going to be prolific this season.

    Letting Andy go without having his replacement already signed up was a MAJOR ****-up. A sign that business was being put ahead of the sporting agenda. If BR claims he is ‘in total charge’, then he should NEVER have allowed this to happen. Mind you, his embarrassing claims over not letting Andy go on loan, then doing just that, mark him as either indecisive or (at best)naïve. If it was down to Ayre, then at least we are clear that business is running the club over footballing concerns.

    But my bigger concern is that we’ve become massively fragile at the back because BR wants all the players to implement a ‘passing from the back’ strategy before they have the equipment to do it. Witness the unforced errors this season – blind passes back to the keeper, getting caught in possession when there had been plenty of time to find row Z, or even a long aimless hump upfield…

    The basis of every good team has been the stability of a good defence. BR’s stance on insisting we ‘play it out’ from the back even under pressure is denying us this platform and heaping even more pressure on the team, front to back – the defence know they are going to be hounded precisely because they aren’t allowed to hump it clear, the midfield is now split over whether to protect the backline or commit further forward to help generate chances, and the frontline know they now have to score two per game on average, rather than one (at a time when they are struggling to score event the solitary one!)

    BR needs a dose of pragmatism injected. The team last season under KD was not scoring enough, and we all saw that. Carroll’s return to fitness and confidence looked to be turning the corner in that regard, and we might have had a good chance of resolving the scoring dilemma without sacrificing the defensive solidity we had. The sacking has robbed the club of continuing its advance; the revolution has claimed more victims than just KD and we will be stuck in transition for far longer than we should be.

    I think BR has only a limited amount of time to ‘stabilise’ our defensive problems. IMO the goal scoring issue is a huge smokescreen and I’m not sure that FSG realise this. They’re probably struggling to digest the 180-page dossier and find the pages marked “How to deal with defensive ****ups by the best defenders in the PL, as a result of managerial pressure.”
     
    #1
  2. ShanksHateTheMancs

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    18
    Two words CONFIDENCE - BELIEF; this is why we are in the form we are now stemming from last season!
     
    #2
  3. StJohn_Red_Legend

    StJohn_Red_Legend Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,658
    Likes Received:
    12
    I don't think you can level that as the core problem - otherwise you never see any changes and no-one emerges from the pack.

    I agree that neither of those are in abundance at the moment, but I don't think that they are the core problem.
     
    #3
  4. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    122,839
    Likes Received:
    29,667
    the problem is right over the whole pitch.

    simply put there's huge gaps between all lines.

    the back players are knocking it about adnauseum while the midfielders are showing for short passes meaning the drop deeper and deeper so the fowards are completely isolated up top and have zero presence to hold the dman thing up to allow others to join.

    then the full backs seem to be instructed to be in line with sahin/lucas/allen not just ahead of the CBs... huge gaps o nthe wings.

    then on top of that you've got gerrard and others who just won't track back nor close down up field when they lose it.... we then see huge gaps as teams stream past our players and we see two isolated CBs just trying to stand up and hope they don't get past through.

    I think our forwards need to hold the ball up when it comes to them not pass it right back the minute it reaches them, get their body between ball and defender and draw fouls for god sake... players like robben, duff and such were great examples of guy who are not tall but can win possession and bring others in or get the free.

    then gerrard, johnson and enrique should NOT GO FORWARD UNLESS THEY CAN GET BACK... need a rest? sit there you asses. let allen or sahin go....

    Its not rocket bloody science its a lack of proper play.
     
    #4
  5. ShanksHateTheMancs

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    18
    Perhaps but it depends how on deep they run. Take the likes of Blackpool, Hull, Reading who have been relegated in recent years and from seemingly good starts, that all came down to both those words! Even MANU last season who capitulated at the death, that certainly can be attributed to belief, completely shot after the Everton comeback. It happens and it can be almost impossible to turn around, I have heard so many managers talk about that after a period of struggle, the belief around the club lingers on like a bad spirit.

    What happened to us last season was unprecedented in my opinion, bad luck, Suarezgate, media campaign. This is why we must stay patient with Rodgers, at least for a while because he is not just having to implement a change in philosophy but in raising confidence and belief once more!
     
    #5
  6. mighty_stevie_g

    mighty_stevie_g Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,911
    Likes Received:
    2,656
    The core problem is that we don't stop chopping and changing managers, who in turn keep chopping and changing the team. Allen, Sahin, Sterling & Borini are all new to this starting 11 this year.


    We need a good few months until everyone knows there place, what is required in BR's tactics/style and the players to gel as a team.

    Don't get me wrong, the Carroll leaving with no replacement was a massive **** up but I'm not sure what kind of start the majority of our fans were expecting this season (especially given our opening 6 fixtures), this isn't a shock to me, I hoped it wouldn't be this way but it certainly wasn't unexpected.
     
    #6
  7. StJohn_Red_Legend

    StJohn_Red_Legend Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,658
    Likes Received:
    12
    But where is the fault for this? Is it the players lacking game intelligence? Or Rodgers for forcing a gameplan on players unable (or unwilling) to comply and deliver?

    This problem was not there last season. Our squad is smaller this season, so have we lost key personnel? I can't see who or where...
     
    #7
  8. StJohn_Red_Legend

    StJohn_Red_Legend Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,658
    Likes Received:
    12
    I wasn't expecting the moon, but other than against City, I wasn't expect us to look quite so vulnerable defensively, or poor going forward. If anything we're worse than last season...
     
    #8
  9. ShanksHateTheMancs

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    18
    Yes the fixtures were shocking but no question we are behind where we should be after 3 games, however take any 3 game run in isolation and you can be relegation fodder or champs contenders. Far too early, I think the Sunderland game will give us much more of an indication in what to expect this season.
     
    #9
  10. mighty_stevie_g

    mighty_stevie_g Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,911
    Likes Received:
    2,656
    It's just a very fickle game, win our next 3 games (tall order I know with utd and sunderland away in there) and all of sudden we're nailed on top 4 according to 'expert' pundits - then get a point from the following 2 fixtures and we're in a crisis.

    The ups and downs will go on throughout the whole season.

    Yernited and Citeh have also been poor at the back so far and shipping goals but a big difference is teams are scared of them so they get away with it alot - not the case with us any more.
     
    #10

  11. StJohn_Red_Legend

    StJohn_Red_Legend Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,658
    Likes Received:
    12
    Teams are scared for them because they can run up cricket scores...

    This doesn't explain our 3-0 or 0-2 defeats where we (if we're honest) never looked like winning either game - I know decisions went against us in both, but we just didn't do enough going forward. My concern is how easily we were picked apart and conceded goals.

    Rodgers is focussing our attention on goal scoring (particularly in resepct of loaning out Carroll) but I'm concerned about our fragility...
     
    #11
  12. Milk Milk

    Milk Milk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    2,078
    Likes Received:
    35
    Our problem? We have half a dozen good CMs but a weak front line and a back line that is good as long as they don't get injured... but they're all injury prone.

    My solution... sign more CMs and hope our holes sew themselves shut.



    More seriously, its focus... and this problem has been inherited over several seasons... the team is fully capable of playing well but they lack the ability to perform for 90 mins. They switch off the moment anything goes wrong. Rodgers needs to borrow Fergies hair dryer... disinfect it first... Rafael Day Silva probably stuck it up his bum to thaw out the hot dogs.
     
    #12
  13. BCR

    BCR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    23,258
    Likes Received:
    744
    Or just put them at CB, LB, Fwd. Does well enough for United.
     
    #13
  14. Muppetfinder General

    Muppetfinder General Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,576
    Likes Received:
    722
    Load of arse. Dalglish left a squad that had WON SOMETHING. They felt like winners, which was sorely needed more than a top 3 finish - because of course getting 4th and two cups would still have seen Kenny sacked for not securing Champions League qualification. As somebody who's actually won something (unlike Rodgers) Kenny knew the value of winning stuff, moreso than Henry, who only knows the value of his investments. Confidence and belief was in the squad so if it's gone now then there's only one person to blame for that. West Brom look full of confidence with our old coach and nobody's lecturing them about having to be patient.
     
    #14
  15. mighty_stevie_g

    mighty_stevie_g Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,911
    Likes Received:
    2,656
    Well we LOST 9 out of 16 games after the Carling Cup Final so the players might have 'felt' like winners but they didn't play like winners.
     
    #15
  16. Sir_Red

    Sir_Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    9,326
    Likes Received:
    687
    who the **** were you watching last season, the squad had no ****ing confidence and scraped a Carling Cup win on penalties to a Champioship side <doh>. Our squad was spineless last season and showed a distinct lack of heart (unlike the honeymoon the year before). Perhaps if the players had pulled their finger out KK wouldn't have been sacked. And BR is a young manager, of course he hasn't won anything yet, get off his back!
     
    #16
  17. gaf 71

    gaf 71 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,490
    Likes Received:
    54
    I think there is another important factor, which is the loss of Steve Clarke as a (defensive) coach.
     
    #17
  18. BCR

    BCR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    23,258
    Likes Received:
    744
    Go on, tell me what Shankly won before joining Liverpool......

    As someone said, if they felt like winners then why did we have the worst dip in form after that? Should they have not had a lift?
     
    #18

Share This Page