Paralympics

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valleyswan

valleyswan

Active Member
Mar 13, 2012
3,193
15
38
The Swansea Valleys
What an amazing Paralympics we are having, we are up to 62 medals already 19 of them a gold. We have Ellie Simmonds winning her 2nd gold, she does her training in Swansea and its a hell of achievement for a 17 year old girl with disabilities.

Basically I want to make sure that we are acknowledging the achievements of some very special athletes, so well done to them all, but a special well done to Ellie <applause>

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/disability-sport/19464525
 
These athletes in the paralympics are absolutely brilliant. I take my hat off to the lot of them, they're a lot braver than I am and they deserve all the plaudits they get. I hope we get to see Ellie presented to the crowd before a game at the Liberty, her achievements are deserving of a standing ovation.
 
I admire any person who has a disability and can make their life better through sport, but the Paralympics leaves me cold.

Too many uneven playing fields. Despite classifications you can never get a field of athletes with identical disabilities imo. Those who have been disabled since birth are probably at an advantage over those who haven't, and even cyclists missing fingers are classed as disabled, which I think is ridiculous.

The Oscar Pistorius thing is a case in point. Screams blue murder to get himself into the Olympics despite accepted research showing that he uses 2/3 less energy than able bodied athletes. Now he gets himself beaten in the Paralympics he bleats about the other guy's blades being too long and immediately gets a hearing with the Committee, such is his influence. Didn't moan beforehand though did he? Don't be surprised if the rules are changed after the meeting.

I've got nothing but admiration for people who do well at sports despite enormous obstacles (and in fairness Pistorius is one of them) and I've nothing personal against them but I just can't get into this. <sorry>

Controversial, maybe un-PC, but it's a good debate.
 
I don't get these classes and categories at all but I can see where you're coming from Aussie. Just glad to see someone local doing well.
 
Controversial yes, but good points for debate. I don't see it in that way as people with disabilities face many challenges to be part of the Paralympics, the classifications helps narrow it down somewhat. And that ensures people with similar disabilities are pitted against each other. The link below explains this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/201...s-guide-classifications?mobile-redirect=false

As for that guy complaining, it's no more different to others who complain about what they perceive as an unfair advantage, you can see this in football with certain type of boots a few years ago, or in formula one on various points concerning aerodynamics and weight distribution. The point is every sport has people complaining about something, and it leaves me equally as cold.

Disability sets you at a disadvantage, anyone who can achieve huge things despite what afflicts them should be admired and applauded in my view. The Paralympics is about adversity and overcoming it, I am enjoying seeing TeamGB making a huge impact.
 
"Disability sets you at a disadvantage, anyone who can achieve huge things despite what afflicts them should be admired and applauded in my view"


Totally agree, valley.

But in able-bodied competitive sports every effort is made to make sure all participants start on a level playing field. Any hint of an unfair advantage and you're out. In paralympic sports I fully accept that creating any sort of unanimity is very difficult. I'd go so far as to say it's almost impossible.

Take our gold medal wheelchair sprinter last night. The poor bugger has been walking on his hands since he was born so has incredible upper body strength. Many of his competitors have lost limbs since birth through accident or war and have had to overcome incredible adversity to get where they are but over a much shorter period of time. To me, that has given him an inherent advantage.

Furthermore, by their very nature paralympic sports need lots of equipment and there seems to be some dispute over the standardisation of it - the blades being an example.

The point I'm making is that whereas I think all these athletes are amazing, the fact that they are all so very different completely devalues the competitive aspect of their chosen sports. Very harsh maybe, but I think the argument has logic.
 
But by going on that knackered, a lot of equipment is used in other sports in the olympics, look at the cycling, rowing, equestrian (okay horses), sailing and tennis. These are not really standardised otherwise they would all be using the exact same equipment. As for your example above about the wheelchair sprint, how is that any different from someone who excels at his sport?

For example there is a difference between Van Persie and Graham, is it that one is better than the other, or the fact that one has more of advantage over the other? They are both athletes they are both under the same kind training methods, but there is no advantage except one is better than the other, better skilled because its their innate ability that counts.

So by using what you are suggesting knackered, the able bodied sports are not a level playing field, as some are better than others, its unfair then to have better players (in the case of football) pitted against lessor players, as that gives an unfair advantage over the teams with players not up to the standard of say the Man Utds ;)
 
Yes, I can see that argument too but I don't buy it, even though that's a personal view.

On the equipment, the very nature of it has to be non-standard because a person with (for example) more parts of their leg missing needs a different blade length to others. In able-bodied sports equipment that's not the case, where the differences tend to relate to design.

RVP and DG are both able bodied. They have two arms and two legs. Fact is, the innate ability of RVP is much better than DG's. That's life. I'm not saying that to make a comparison they must have the same leg and arm length, or the same musculature because that would be ridiculous. Wheelchair sprinting is largely dependable on upper body strength. Football is about rather more than that.

But in disabled sports you have differing levels of handicap competing in the same sports, and for me that's just wrong. Ellie Simmonds (who I know through her school) swims against people who clearly don't have the disability as her. I really don't know if that makes it easier or harder for her, but different they are.

Let's be clear, I'm not diminishing the achievements of these athletes, and they are incredible. But for me I can't get into it for the reasons I've set out.
 
yeah well done to team GB and all the athletes doing well in the paralympics. Funny enough knackered but me and my wife were chatting about the same thing the other night, we are both full time carers for our disabled son and we see all too often how the same condition can vary from 1 extreme to the other, add in the different types of equipment etc and its not all about the training and dedication anymore just some people more able than others. But then again im sure usain bolts genetics are far superior to mine even if we both trained exactly the same. Some people are more able than others in all aspects of life.
 
I agree with that, mate. Genes are the key to a lot of sporting success - or failure.
 
Knackeredjack said:
I agree with that, mate. Genes are the key to a lot of sporting success - or failure.
Click to expand...

That's a fascinating point KJ. Is it Nature, what we are born with/without, or Nurture, how we develop with what we have ( or haven't ).

No one seems to have a definitive answer.

By the way Well Done Guys and Gals keep up the good work! It's inspiring stuff!
 
My best guess is that it's a bit of both. Bit like behaviour.

Mate of mine and his wife raised a kid from her previous relationship. They are lovely people but her ex definitely was not and was violent. When the kid was quite little he was showing worrying signs despite being raised in a well-off, loving family, and attacked our kids on at least one occasion. Me and my wife said one day he'll end up in prison.

20 years on and he's just come out after serving 4 years for an offence of violence. No surprise to us, but his poor parents were put through hell, not to mention the person he assaulted.

I'm also certain that if you take a decent kid and put him/her in the wrong environment the results would be equally disastrous. I love the nature/ nurture argument because nobody really knows the answer.
 
KJ I am not surprised by that story , previously I would have been sceptical, however, recently I was hit by the bombshell of finding out that I had a sibling of which there had been no previous intimation. Both my parents being deceased. Apparently the child was given up for adoption at birth. However when we eventually met, the physical characteristics plus certain behavioural traits that were displayed were totally uncanny. I am now convinced that certain nuances of behaviour are more inherited than learnt.
 
Hope that worked out for you, mate.

Bloody hell this is an intellectual thread. We don't get many on here. <laugh>
 
Well it is humbling to see that some of these Paralympians can perform at such a high level, for example the guy with only half an arm and two legs can swim faster than many training for the local triathlon.

Went up last week and had a day pass for £10.00 and saw great gutsy performances of power lifting and blind judo players - have to give these guys mega respect! They have not let these issues ruin their lives, not sure I could be that strong.
 
Ellie Simmonds picks up her third medal, a bronze this time in her weakest event the 50 metres freestyle. Fair play she has done remarkably well considering the pressure of expectancy.

Been watching the blind 7 a side mens football GB v Iran (0-1) , have to say it was pretty frustrating to see them struggling to even get any touches on the ball but guess they must all enjoy competing so good luck to them.
 
My sister ( a tremendous swimmer , watched her on "Wide World of Sports " once ) dated a one legged gymnast when I was about 13 years old . The guy could run on the one leg & do all the flips & twists on the floor exercises ... I swear ... !! I was super impressed
 
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