I'm feeling your pain Bidders (congrats on breaking the 2000 barrier). What a week its been. 3 losses, Dembele gone (and scores ont his debut,FFS), berba comes on and shows some real class - something to remember the game for and not much else to be honest. Marathon not a sprint folks. It will all come good. We'll finish 10th.
Blimey, the BBC certainly have it in for us - we're 3rd up on MOTD! Presumably so that they can discuss the two Ds rather than the match. Oh, and whatisname, the L'pool guy, on Carroll.
I think everyone has summed up pretty much everything that can be said about the first half!! I think when Berba came on and the shape changed we were better but surprised Petric made way for him, It would have been nice to see them as a duo at front. We seemed more of an attacking force when Kaka came on, which I would have done from the start of the 2nd half in place of Richardson and for me Diarra was our best man. Hopefully just a temporary blip and we should get our injured list back soon!
I noticed Riise was pretty vocal, but that's because Richardson and Rodallega probably pissed him off all afternoon by leaving the left side wide open. Hangeland had an absolute shocking, didn't organise the defense at all. Diarra for me was probably the one with the most leadership but I understand your point. It was like Diarra and Sidwell were holding onto the ball in midfield, looking to pass to Dembele, and realising he wasn't there, passed it back to the defense. Work needs to be done.
Evening all, just got back from the game via a few pubs to drown my sorrows and I thought I’d voice my opinion. As most people who either went to or watched the game on SKY I though we were rubbish…. Really really rubbish. West ham didn’t play that well, we played so badly we made them look good. Positives… (Not many) Berbatov looked good when he came on. His ball control was excellent but he is going to need a decent service which I fear we may struggle to provide him with. Hangeland contained Carol well and beat him to most crosses. Rodallega wasn’t as useless as I thought he would be. I know he was out of position for a large portion of the game but I wasn’t impressed. He had a fair bit of the ball but didn’t really do much with it, I hear he hit the post in the dying seconds but I had left the ground by then. He gets the ball and runs around a lot, but doesn’t really produce an end product…. He is a Colombian AJ… I know he has received a slating on here but I wish we had gone for Fletcher. I may sound old fashioned but I prefer a striker who scores goals… I don’t care how much they run around. The beer at Upton Park is cheaper than at the Cottage and colder too… No complaints there. Negatives. Defensively we were very poor. I’m not sure if we were playing zonal but it was all over the pace. West Ham physically were much stronger and we struggled with that element. We looked very weak in midfield (with the exception of Diarra) and really really missed Murphy, Dempsey and Dembele. Creatively we missed the Ds but I thought we missed the leadership qualities for Murphy and to an extent Dempsey. Sidwell was poor today in my opinion. We lacked creativity and a cutting edge. Nothing really to offer Petric who was out the game really. Had it been Man City or Chelsea today I wouldn’t feel as negative but West Ham are a poor side my PL standards…. We made them look good today. I was optimistic about this season and though we may improve on lat year’s position but sadly I think we will struggle to get into the top half of the table.
Just another point, apparently Richardson had not trained 3-4 days previous to today's match. Which begs the question why was Kaca dropped for him to come in? Awful move by Jol, Kaca has had an impressive start to the season. Hopefully all will be restored against WBA.
Agree with everything bar this ^ Thought Carroll was a real nuisance today and Hangeland didn't help matters by having an awful game. MS was also below par, what was he doing for the second goal?!
I must admit I am loosing faith in Ruiz too. We paid a lot of money for him and I understand that players need time to adapt to the PL but he has had a season now so really need to hit the ground running this season. I doubt may other PL clubs would offer £2-3m for him based on last seasons performances let alone the £10m+ we paid Twente
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I think he would have made a difference out there today. We were screaming out for a playmaker, Sidwell and Diarra had nowhere to go but backwards, he would have given us another option. I agree that he needs to hit the ground running, especially now that Dempsey and Dembele have left, but he looked decent in his first two games this season.
I think creatively he would definitely bout something to the game. The problem is he really lacks a physical presence and gets pushed from the ball far too easily. Had he been on the field today as soon as he would have received the ball he would have been on his ar5e. If he beefs up a bit I think he game will improve no end (as Dembele’s did last season) but West Ham would have kicked the crap out of him today.
Not really. He didn't play today true enough but I've never been that impressed even when he has. We all agreed he was lightweight last season and I am not sure if he will be any better this. My stance on Ruiz is that I've never really been that impressed. He may have looked alright so far but even Marlet had a few good games. As I say, he may be brilliant - I hope he is - but he just doesn't live up to his fee for me and never has done. That's not his fault either, I know. I guess we all have players in the team we love, like Danny, Barry or Rufus and others we don't ever take to and mine seems to be Ruiz.
I was the same as you last season Fulhaman. But he does seem to have gained a bit of muscle this season. I agree he would have been battered and bruised today but would have created at least a few openings. Berbatov isn't the strongest but still managed to hold the ball up very well. If Ruiz hasn't made an impact by Christmas then I say cut our losses but until then, no rash judgments please?
Ah, but Berbatov generally oozes class. And that may be the difference. I'm not going to judge Ruiz. I'm just saying I don't think he'll ever be a player I take to, his play doesn't make me think "wow, he's a bit of a player". It more makes me think, "how far is he going to get before he loses the ball."
Unbelievable, Ruiz has been very good this season so far? Why is it as soon as he isn't in the team and we don't play very well, he gets criticism? I don't understand the logic, I really don't.
True - they were up for the game and we weren't. I think Bidley has valid points however Ruiz would have at least held on to the ball in their half. Going back to those that did play and the equally valid points TMHAL makes about our general poor performance, can I ask a question - were we trying to 'zonal mark' ? It got the impression that we were but watching the game on a PC it's difficult to be sure. What did anyone who saw it live think ?
Hey - Ruiz did'nt play today. He didn't have a good season last yera but against Norwich and Man Utd he was good I thought. Today we should have played Kaka rather than Richardson to start with but other than that we just had a bad day. It will take time to adjust and organise ourselves without Demebele (and Murphy) We had an excellent pre season training and it has all been shot to pieces with the Dembele move. We have some great players and it now needs time to readjust our play to live life without Dembele.
Dreary game to watch. Richardson gave the ball away a few times, but looked lively. Berbatov looked class out there, but didn't get the ball where he needed it. I think it will take time for the new players to settle in. If Ruiz had been in the game, that would have helped with the continuity, but for some reason he's missing.
Having been critical of Ruiz last season, I was pleased with his progress, so think the criticism here is harsh. Frankly, we need some spark in midfield, as evidenced yesterday, something he has shown in the previous 2 matches. Yes, West Ham would have been physical, but he is less prone to going over having bulked-up.
Defensively we were poor and I couldn’t understand why, apart from Riether the back 4 are used to playing together. From players positions and the players they were picking up I got the impression we may have been trying zonal but it may have just been a bad day at the office. In the second half I could really tell as my seat was quite low down so I dodn;t get a great view of the Bobby More End. From reading the reviews on line people seem to be singing the praises of WHU and saying how good Carol was. From being at the game yesterday I wasn’t that impressed with either. BH marked Carol well and out jumped him to most balls that were swung in. I didn’t think WHU looked any thing special it was more a case of us being so poor. Similar to our first game against Norwich - Were played OK but Norwich made us look way way better than we actually were. That being said I haven’t seen MOTD yet (not sure if I want to) so there may have been things I missed without have replays etc. One thing that does concern me that C58 picked up on was a lack of leadership, and also physical presence. Diarra played well but I’m not sure if he is a leader in the way Murphy is.. I’m not even sure how good his English is which may affect his ability to boss the players in the way Murphy did. As much as it pains me to say it I though we could have really done with Dixon yesterday. I think with his physical presence we could have held the midfield better. We can work on tactics and even, to extent, ability however leadership is something you either have or you don’t and I think it’s an area out midfield lacks in abundance. Dempsey had it, Murphy certainly had and you could argue that in a “leading my example way” Dembele had it too. I think it is an area we are really going to struggle with this season. I do feel a mid pi55ed off we didn’t bring in a more replacement for the players we lost. Despite the late departure of the Ds Big Maart must have known there was a good chance they would go… Richardson is a decent enough player but a midfield leader he isn’t. I thought he done OK yesterday given it was his first game at against a former club. I suspect the money form the Ds sale will help fund the Riverside expansion rather than be reinvested which may have been a factor in bringing other players in. Creativity is another area we have been left sort. Ruiz certainly has it but it you get knocked off the ball before you can apply it its worthless. I gave him time last season and without a doubt (when he has space and time) he shows glimpses of genius, but he really struggles physically and with the pace of the game. I really hope he come good this year, as he could be one hell of a player, but fear that he would have done so my now. Berbatov looked very good when he came on. His ball control was brilliant and it seemed to stick to his feat. I was also impressed with how he handled him self physically. He gave as good as he got and stayed on his feet when I would have expected him to go down. The ball also seemed to stick to his feet when in a croud of player… I’m not sure if this was shown on MOTD? Provided he gets the service I think we may have picked up a gem (at least for a few seasons) there. Rodallega… I’m not even going to go there… One of the few PL strikers with a worse strike rate than AJ. I really can’t see what he brings to the table… Particularly after seeing him in yesterday. Let home he proves me wrong!
Too early in the season to panic! Generally our marking was poor. The midfield was giving a bit too much space for my liking. The leadership is an area that was pointed out a few times even last season when Murphy was off. Don't think Hangeland is the leader Murphy was and was hoping Dembele will be that. Regarding creativity I was hoping Davies will be played more. 2 week break to allow Jol and co to gel plan B and C. Plan A is gone.
