Hi all, I've been to both of our league games this season, and having seen one excellent performance against Palace and one disappointing showing against Ipswich, I think its a good time to discuss the style of play. Zola is obviously trying to play more 'continental' football, with a 4-3-3 formation and introducing the short passing game, as opposed to the normal direct style of play and 4-4-2 formation you see with most Championship teams. The key question to our season is weather this can be successfully implemented into our squad. On Saturday we were really knocking the ball round, but tonight it was very scrappy and we were giving the ball away a lot. Vydra and Abdi were so influential on Saturday, yet both didn't have the same impact, particularly Vydra who was kept very quiet by Carlos Edwards, your average player at this level. Then you move away from the Udinese loanees and the more technical players of the squad. Can it really be expected of the likes of Taylor, Nosworthy and Hogg, the spine of our team, to suddenly be able to knock the ball at will and be comfortable on the ball. They did it more often than not on Saturday, but were really well pressed by the front two of Ipswich, rarely allowing us to build momentum. When we had space at the back to knock it around, things started clicked together, but this happened all too rarely. In fact, tonight we looked a lot more dangerous when Iwelumo came on and we started pumping more direct passes and crosses into the box. This is in no way a criticism of Zola, and I'm certainly not drawing any major conclusions just two games into the season, but is there really room for a short passing game at a club like Watford?
Whilst very admirable trying to play a 'continental' style of football it totally relies on having players that are skillfull enough to play that way. So the first touch and control has to be spot on, it gives the player the time to look for the pass and then to move to create space - unfortunately some of our squad players struggle with some of these skills and if the first touch is poor they have to make a lash at the ball. It will take some time and we need patience
Some of our players have spent most or all of their career playing a traditional ' English ' style of football, so I think they might struggle in this new system of ours. Remember Rodgers loaned out Eustace, promoted Jenkins to the first team and brought in Jack Cork, then dropped both Bromby and Demerit and played Mapps and Mike Williamson as the centre halfs. I think like Rodgers, Zola is going to find out that some of our players will be no good for the way he wants us to play. Some of our defenders lack composure and are used to hoofing it, cant see these guys being able to adapt If Im honest which is why I personally think we need a centre half who is used to playing in a passing side, someone like Gary Monk who has been at Swansea for years. At the end of the day no matter who the manager and coaches are, if you have cloggers, big oafs and hoofers in your side then it's going to be extremely difficult to get a modern type of system to work. In this senario of ours, it's not about mixing youth and experience and having different type of players, you need all 10 of the outfield players to have the basics, the basics being a decent first and second touch. And TBH outfield players who dont have these basics shouldn't even be playing professional football IMO. When your about 7 you learn how to trap/control the ball and how to play a short pass with the side of your foot. It's all well and good telling experienced players to change the way they play but these guys have spent years and years playing their own game week in week in week out. Younger players who are still developing and learning can obviously be moulded into specific traits (well most can). I dont want us to be a team full of foreigners but most experienced British players that dont play in the Prem have poor technique and lack composure on the ball.
I quite like the style and having Big Chris as a back up to come on for a plan B, However the one problem at the moment, after going to both games is that Joe Garner is simply not good enough to hold the cf position really on his own, Would much rather Matěj Vydra through the middle, I hear Beleck is fairly talented so maybe Zola is waiting to replace Garner with him. I'm pretty happy though
On Saturday we played a team who'll be relegated and last night we played a team who'll probably be in the promotion shake up. Flippant I know but pretty true. The biggest positive so far is that Zola seems to have an ability, which I used to think was a given with managers but haven't seen in a while, to see when something is not working and actually change it for the better. On Saturday it was bringing on Vydra, last night it was Iwelumo. He's also identified weak links in the side pretty quickly so Garner may have just made his last start in a while. Changing our style was always going to take a bit of time. I just hope we pick up points along the way and the fans exercise a bit of patience.
From what I heard last night from Jon Marks, Ipswich had done their homework and were pressing our players quickly, not giving them time on the ball. There were brief flashes of the passing game when the ball was being moved at speed between us, but it was breaking down far too soon. The comment was made that when it does all come together then some team will be on the wrong end of a beating. Last night was disappointing, but I think this will take time to come together. I will be listening out over the next few games to see if there is a steady improvement week on week.
It will take time to get the philosophy across, and as mentioned, if you have played your entire career one way, you can't just change into someone comfortable on the ball and a good passer in a space of a month. I think most of us said we will have to be patient for the first half of the season while Zola gets his ideas across, but the Palace game seems to have raised expectations too quickly. I'm sure there will be a number of changes to the squad over the next 2 years while Zola tries to bring in more technical players. Saying that, it is always good to have a plan B, and as long as Zola isn't too rigid to just play one way even if it is not working, then that is good enough for me. I don't see us challenging this season, so as long as we stay away from the relegation fight, then I will be happy. The passing game will come, we just have to realise it will take time. Most on here will realise this, just not so sure the Wobby and Twitter people will be so patient!
Si, despite last nights result I'm certain Ipswich will struggle quite badly. They outplayed us last night, but looking at their team i just can't see them doing well this season! Good views all round, particularly Mitch's comparison with Rodgers which I think is a fair comparison. I said before the season, whilst we were 2-1 down to palace and when we beat them 3-2, and I will say after last nights game, that we will finish around 8th-10th. After watching Saturday last night was very frustrating as we just didn't seem to develop any rythym, but as Frenchie pointed out, Ipswich pressed us very high up the pitch and we made a lot of errors and couldn't get our rythym going. I think we will endure a few more frustrating games like that this season, but I do think we will have a good season. Next Saturday against Birmingham is a good test. They are on paper a better technical, but have had a bad start to the season and we are the home team. Lose on Saturday and everyone will start moaning, I gurantee it.
Ipswich did press us as will every other team. Frankly we attempted to overpass which led to a few almost commical plays across the back where we nearly gave a goal away and after say 6 or more passes we were forced to punt it long anyway! I'm yet to be convinced that this type of game will work well in the Championship. Also my impression was that this type of formation & style isn't suiting Murray - hopefully he will adapt. I would add that he has bulked up over the summer I think.
Like Mitch says I should think its a case of some players simply not having the ability to pass the ball on quickly or not being able to pass at all. The midfield last night was awful in terms of that aspect. Ofcourse we need time but teams will do what Ipswich did last night and we have to learn...
i'm a liitle bit sceptical about managers with philosophy. As one great manager said, (I forget for the life of me who it was) football is a wonderfull philosophy spoiled only by the opposition. Taking 20 passes to get from one end of the pitch to the other has 20 chances of going wrong, and can become every bit as predictable and boring as hoofball - and the last thing you want as an attacking force is to be predictable. If we can learn to mix styles, depending on circumstances, and create unusual situations in opposition penalty areas then great. A great manager looks at the players he has available and adapts his philosophy to find the best systems for those players - not the other way around. I hope that GZ. does not see himself as an established manager yet, but realizes that he has as much to learn as anyone else - if that happens we will be o.k. If on the other hand those who do not neatly fit in with his narrow philosophy ie. Eustace, Doyley or Dickinson (the heart of our club) are sent out to grass whereas those left on the pitch have footballing brains but have, unfortunately left their balls in the training room, then any success gained in this way will not be worth the price paid.
Rodgers proved adaptable as a manger. When his "passing game" proved ineffective at Watford (and when it got the fans annoyed to the point where they openly mocked the team) he dropped his protege Bridcutt, brought back Eustace and Rasiak and got the best out of Priskin. He did not abandon his principles, but tailored them to the resources at hand and developed an effective counter-attacking style. Doubtless Zola will do the same, though he has the "luxury" of a larger roster of loan players to call upon--if needed he can send to Italy or Spain for better quality reinforcements, so with him the experiment may last longer. Whatever team and style he eventually ends up with , it is certain to look very little like the team that ended last seasons campaign. Indeed the team that starts next seasons campaign will not look much like the one we have now either. Lots of player turnover, lots of new faces here for a season, will be the order of the day from now on. I would worry about team spirit and dressing room togetherness in that situation, as much as "do the players have the technical ability to play the Zola style". I must say though that any team that includes Dickinson, Yeates and Garner at the same time is always going struggle to be competitive in this division. They are average players at best, and having all three in the same side means that ,well, the team looks average.....
Two league matches and two odd results. If we had lost to Crystal Palace and beaten Ipswich Town we would be happy, but this way is an odd feeling. All our recent coaches have had their time with passing football, and all have had the direct style as well. Perhaps some of the team are better suited to one way of playing and this might not be the way Gianfranco Zola wants, on saturday they showed they could adapt themselves to his ideas, but last night something went wrong. Was Ipswich Town's style of play different enough to stop our team playing their new way or is this a thing to come, where opponents play to stop the new Watford way, and see what might come to them? If this is to be then it is a demonstration of respect they want to stop us play rather than play a game where two teams are equal and skill is the difference.
He never brought Eustace back, he stayed on loan at Derby till the end of the season. He (Eustace) scored against us at our place in a 3-1 win for us on the last day of the season remember. It was Jack Cork and Ross Jenkins that played in central midfield under Rodgers in the second half of that season. We had Rasiak on loan from Southampton that season (a Boothroyd signing). He never went anywhere he just had a spell where he was out injured. Your quite right he did get the best out of Priskin, infact to date Brendan Rodgers is the only manager who has been able to get anything out of Tamas Priskin!!
On the evidence of last night I'd say we have a way to go. It wasn't just about accuracy of passing though...it was also about speed of passing. Closing down is easier if you take a lot of time to move the ball on. Ipswich looked to have mastered that better than us. A key element of the passing game though is having targets to aim for. Last night too many midfielders were slow to find space and make themselves available. The old "pass and move" mantra seems critical to me...
I read Paul Jewels interview before the game and it struck me that he had identified a team in transition and its areas to exploit. I didn't see the game but from what I've read and the stats I was seeing on t'internet, it looks like a case of ' he got it right'. As to the passing issue, we won't have a passing team that is effective for quite a while and I suspect that although we will pick up points we can expect the odd hammering from the traditional hustle and bustle teams. We are going to need patience! My opinion, for what it's worth, is that for a team to play the passing game and be effective it has to have at least two players that float around between 18 yard boxes making the play. Names that spring to mind that do this well are Modric, Wilshere, Mata, Fabregas, Gerrard. Someone better versed with our squad let me know who we have that is able to make the play so that our average players are not expected to do it.
Both Blackpool and Swansea got promoted playing a passing game with fluid formations. Infact 90% of the clubs that have been promoted to the Prem these past few years have been passing sides (WBA, Burnley, Norwich, Reading, Southampton etc etc)
The style of play is fine if it is done with a bit of zip and urgency. This wasn't the case last night.
Exactly that. We will become a passing side, and it will probably be successful, but only when we speed up the passing so that it becomes impossible to keep track of and hard to predict. Right now, they're learning...and on Saturday they seemed to have almost mastered it...last night...probably because Ipswich were on the ball if you'll pardon the pun, they seemed to take an eternity to think...and thinking time is time for the other time to nick the ball and make their move. Last night we couldn't keep the ball, we couldn't take the ball...but when we started passing, we looked good...sadly it was a rare event. I think the comments about Garner is right...he can't be a lone player up front, it doesn't work. And though Mark Yeates isn't awful, i don't understand why Zola likes to play him so much. However, after today's news that the club has told a few players they can leave if they want to..i'm sure there will be some movement over the next few days... i also have a feeling that we will have very few permanent Watford players on the pitch for most of the season..which seems a real shame.... Not really sure where we're heading right now..i hope we're heading in a good direction...only time will tell...
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we see this new type of football under Vialli's reign.............his new "sexy" football lasted a nano second before he realised that Championship players aren't up to it. Are we now gonna have to go through exactly the same route as we have done before as the penny slowly drops in Zola brain that at our level sexy football does not work. In my mind the reason the football was awful in the first half is that the team were trying to play Zola's way, in the second half the team (paticularly in the last 15 mins) tried to win the game more than trying to play Zola's way and it made for an excellent game albeit we lost. Was Saturdays win a fluke, are we now facing reality or are we going to take the Championship by storm....its anyone guess at the moment
