Right to Die

Fair enough - maybe I just have a very low value on the workings of the human mind, to which I gave the most extreme example possible to express that.

 

No, I feel differently. And there is nothing simple about such a delicate argument.

Or…..

Suicide may be very sad but people should be free to do as they please with their own lives and should not be hindered from ending them if and when they decide to do so; on the understanding that we feel compelled and have tried to offer all help and alternatives preceding their final decision and that the person who would kill themselves is not diagnosed as being clinically insane.

Which opens up another set of problems, right enough. What’s so particularly insane about wanting to end our own lives? You seemed emphatic earlier on:

I feel differently. It’s an interesting and comforting concept, though, even if it falls significantly short of anything approaching a solidified version of (my own perception of) reality. That some mentally ill people wish to die seems incontrovertible, of course, no arguments there, but the notion (of wanting to die) is not thereafter automatically or logically susceptible to being classed as insane. It simply doesn’t do, I feel, to label someone as being mentally ill if they make a perfectly rational case for their own extinction. The unbending rigidity of such an outlook rather obscures the very obvious fact that a) some people will think differently and will not feel bound by such all-encompassing strictures and that b) the specious notion of human exceptionalism and/or the sanctity of life (with their origins in religion, although by no means exclusively used by the religious) are logically, dispassionately, legitimately and emphatically rejected by some of us, unmoved as we are by the spectacle of human animals treating this earth as their dominion.

Actually, I’ll leave that be. I was about to go off on a verbal bender – a very bad habit, sorry – but I can see that I’m straying from the point and opening up too many new fronts of entanglement. (And I don't mean to pick on your arguments specifically, by the way, it's just that I was skim reading - it's late - and these particular contributions of yours were short and snappy enough to deal with.)

Bed.

 

Psychosomatic

Although I have 'liked' your post (No.168), I agree more with the thoughts of Mind T S. However it is refreshing that an opinion has been expressed - with a degree of intelligence - and without the usual insult/bad language or images of arses etc. It's a real pity that there is so little such debate on GC without the descent into depravity, - and with the departure of Fan it looks like that we'll be stuck with more rubbish.

 

Wow that was quite an epic read... some good point snuck inbetween the childish insults.

One thing that came to mind when Toby was discussing language, life experience and self awareness was Nagel's p-zombies. In essenence you can simple not tell if any other person has sentience (spelling?) or self awareness, they simply could be displaying the expected reaction, i.e. poke them and they will say "ouch", but you have no proof they experience pain. So the idea of attributing "human rights" to a person via something that can not be proved seems perverse to me

 

No. My point was that aborting a foetus is not killing a child, since the foetus isn't self aware. A women having her period is technically depriving the world of another child.

I got the 'life from conception' bit because Jip thinks that a fertilised egg is a child, I don't.

Get it now?

Also, I was right and you were wrong, but you're too much of a weasel of a man to admit it

 

The relationship between thoughts and language is a massive debate in the field of linguistics, but you know **** all about it, so **** off?

 

One fella gets to kill himself then it opens up a big can of worms.

I think suicide is a cowards way out but lookin at that guy on the TV you can see he lives a miserable life.

Then again if not606 was running a bus trip to Switzerland I would happily give my hard earned cash for a quite a few people.

You know who you are.

 

By thought, I mean complex thought. The human brain cannot comprehend thinking without language.

Going to be late for work if I get involved with this now, will finish later.

 

Ski trip to the Alps

 

Thanks! And no worries, I feel the vast majority of people would instinctively agree with Mind The Step, as you do - nothing wrong with that. It’s pretty much established thought these days, really, but I doubt I’ll let this niggling obstacle dishearten me. Much.

 

Jip said this:

Talking about foetuses. Which means he thinks life begins at conception. Your feeble comprehension skills stop you from seeing it.

Give it up Rebel, you have no ****ing clue on the subject

I didn't, you're just too stupid to understand