Just following on this discussion from yesterday's Daily Thread, it has been revealed by connections that they are considering a tilt (do you see what I did there?!) at the Prix du Moulin (8f) in September for Frankel. As it stands there is almost 2 months between the Juddmonte International and Champions Day and it would be hard to keep the horse ticking over at full fitness for that length of time. My personal opinion, having discussed the issue at length with more knowledgable people than I, is that they have been experimenting with the horse this year. He has long been known to be strong willed and headstrong and my own conversations with Sir Henry's secretary revealed that he is a creature of routine and that change upsets him. I suspect this is why he has not travelled overseas to date. This year they seem to have had a change of tactics - certainly for Newbury and Ascot, and possibly Goodwood, I'm not sure, he has travelled to the racecourse the day before his race and spent the night away from home. I am speculating that as he has shown that he can relax away from home they are happy to travel him to France as he would not need to spend more than a night away from home. As also mentioned on the Daily Thread, I had a look at the Pattern Book, and their options during that 2 month period are really very limited. The pattern since the Guineas has been to have a least one month between starts (he had 15 days between his Conditions race win at Doncaster and his Royal Lodge win at Ascot; and 14 days between the Greenham and the Guineas), so you are really looking at a G1 race in mid-September over either 8f or 10f. There really isn't much available: The Moulin is the only G1 mile race in that time span (he could go for the "G1" Premio Vittorio di Capua at Milan on 30 September I suppose, but that would be a mickey mouse race). The Joel Stakes (G2) at Newmarket on 28 September or the Europa-Meile (G2) at Munich would be alternatives, but do we want to see him in a G2? Over 10f the only G1 is the Irish Champion Stakes, though as this is 8th September, I would imagine is a non-starter. The fact that he has not been entered at either of the two stages so far (23rd May & 25th July) suggests that it is not even a consideration. In theory he could be supplemented (€75,000) on 3rd September, but if they were really thinking of it, he would have been given an entry by now. So, further thoughts/opinions?
I did see what you did (nice one) but their programme for him has been hardly quixotic. If he ran in a Group 2 he'd have to give weight away to horses he's currently beating at levels. There's no problem in that is there? We have too many Group 1s now that perhaps shouldn't be ( the Lockinge rarely looks up to standard for example), if there were less he'd have to run in Group 2s or not at all. If he ran once a month I'd not believe the breed is weakening. Is it that he doesn't because he can't? I'd just love to see such a spectacular horse be tested.
You raise an interesting point Bustino. Are these very good horses kept in cotton wool, or is the more moderate racehorse over raced just to pay the bills?
It's an individual thing, some horses just need longer between races than others. Plus the right race has to be available. Look at all the problems that the wet summer has caused this year, if you have a horse that needs good/firm ground, why would you want to run him on heavy? Whatever they do with the horse, someone somewhere will have a reason to crab the form - Run him in a G2, "he's afraid to take on proper G1 horses" Run him in France "why don't they go to America" Win over 10f "why don't they run him in the Arc/July Cup?" etc I'd agree that there are too many G1s and many, particularly those in Italy, do not deserve the status. The Euopean Pattern could be in for a tough time as it is, the French are very unhappy about the British insistance on upgrading races run on Champions Day (and creating a real rival to the Arc meeting) and are doing everything they can to block it.
A good question but take Sadler's Wells for example who ran 7 times as a 3yo. It was no surprise when he became the great sire he did. He must have been tough and he probably passed it on but sometimes you'd never know because the horses don't run. I don't know if Frankel is tough. It's now August and he's had 3 races without being tested: spectacular yes but not tested.
Yes, but take into account that the turf season did not start in Britain until late March/early April, so there have only been 5 months of available competition for him. Add to this the fact that the pattern races start later: first 8f Group race open to him would have been the Fruhjahrs-Meile (G3) at Dusseldorf on 15 April. He ran in the first 8f G1 race of the season (the Lockinge) and the second (Queen Anne). The only other G1 8f races in between those two were the various Guineas and not an option for him. On the 10f front, the first option would have been the G3 Prix Exbury at Saint-Cloud on 17 March, with the first G1 not until mid-May in Italy. I say again, whatever they do with the horse, someone will be unhappy!
Do we think then that these 'great' racehorses of yesteryear were over-raced? My thinking is that horse racing at the top level now is now solely based around a stallion career, which I'm not sure whether is a good or a bad thing! I'd love to see Frankel running run in the arc, and I think now his reputation is enough that if he didn't win the arc (which I think he would) he'd be a hugely popular stallion anyway!
Ultimately he is their horse to do as they please with.EOS really. Given that connections are unsure how the horse will travel,it must rate too risky a prospect to go to France and endanger his flawless and impressive CV. Racecourse gallop.
Yes, but infantile question I know, but is there any material available to test him? Up to a mile I think not. The only way to test him is to overdo the distance, surely? And why the heck should his connections do this, I know I would not. I would not give a flying .... what others thought about it either. I stick to what I've always said about Frankel, he's a miler and would probably give top-class sprinters a run for their money too. Used to read a year ago, on occasions, that he should have had a go at the Derby. Sorry, that's rubbish.
I've heard a whisper on the back country grape vine that the mighty horse might be lining up for a crack at the Birdsville Cup, run over the metric mile.
Don't think it's infantile at all. I think half the problem is what you said that at a mile there's no competition. I thought the stated objective was to go over 10f. If I'm wrong please put me straight. So why are they not going for it. All you need is a good Yorkshire downpour, he won't run and we'll be at the end of the season looking at each other wondering why he didn't run over 10f and why he actually stayed in training.
A run in France is not certain, however. Cecil said: "He will finish off his racing career at Ascot on Champions Day in the Champion Stakes or Queen Elizabeth II Stakes. "Whether, with the gap between York and Ascot, he contests the Prix du Moulin is questionable. Maybe it will be beneficial leading up to Ascot but we will see. Frankel will tell me what course I should take." He's a very clever GG. Get the fast ferry from Portsmouth/Poole to Cherbourg (Special VIP Stabling arrangements of course) then drive to my place where he can be stabled for a few days, before setting off for Longchamp. Job Done.
I wonder, I say I wonder, if this potential trip to France to contest a race he knows he has stacks in hand with, might be to see how he travels with the Arc at the back of their mind? I think they have to have that in mind because he if he were to run at York and be phenomenal over 10f, running away and finishing with some in the tank still to win by 5+Lengths, there will be a huge call for him to run in the Arc. Obviously the issue is the clash with Champions Day with the close dates.
Wouldn't that be great if he ran in the Arc. I'd love to see it. Henry deserves to win the race anyway.
It would be absolutely fabulous. I'm convinced that with his effortless high cruising speed he could just keep in behind and then zoom away from the 2f marker to rapturous applause. Could be the greatest racing day of my life. Well I can dream.
The only definite in Frankel's campaign is that Champions Day (whichever race) is his end of season target. That, to me, all but rules the Arc out of contention. 13 days between two tough races, while not impossible, would not be ideal. Breeders' Cup is 99% likely to be off the agenda, quite rightly in my opinion. The Arc closed on 9th May, so he would have to be supplemented at a cost of €100,000. Supplementary entries are not due until 4th October.
