Football VS Religion?

I don't know if you have read this, and there may already be a thread I have not discovered here, but it was an ok piece well worth another look anyway:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ll-how-do-topflight-muslims-cope-2342187.html


Anyway, my sleep deprived brain has a conjured some inner resolve for football silliness.... So, without further a-do... Perhaps with the influx of players who are practicing Muslims, we'll have later starting leagues? The popularity and practice of the religion is becoming very widespread indeed (we have converted a room for our players to pray every morning). If the premier league stick to the traditional start times forever, do we as fans then feel upset that players aren't at their best for a couple of games every other year? Should they be respectfully kept out of the first team squad til their fast has ended, rather than played and potentially injured? What do you reckon? All hypothetical, of course...

Personally, I think having so many proud Muslim players in our squad is brilliant. Ignorance tends to run riot with the media headlines, we know this, but I'd bet if any study was done on the matter, that tolerance and understanding would be in greater abundance in cases where stars in the local area also represent the media's traditionally stereotyped and divisive communities, and that is where sport has real power for society. Maybe my headline is unfair in that regard, and it should be more about acceptance and togetherness, than "versus". Having quite a few Muslims in the team now, do you think it's partly to thank for the team spirit and togetherness the lads show on the pitch? If we convert Sammy Ameobi, will he become better than his brother?

Furthermore, in this deluded state, my mind drifted back to the idea that "football is our religion", as many a supporter often quips over the third pint. It is perhaps weird to think philosophically that, even in the case of these footballing "gods" who have devoted themselves to deeper concerns above football, were indeed taken as "religious icons", they offer a comparable paradox with the perceptive estrangement/yet close and personal attachment with more established religious "gods"... Maybe that old chap in the corner of the pub, who has pissed his pants and reeks of stale gasoline, is on to something...

... Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to pray to Shola for another couple of Mackem-slayings!


p.s
No religion bashing please if you are going to humour me with a response. Whatever get's you through the day, as long as nobody is getting hurt, shouldn't be attacked

 

Football is a religion

 

Not a religious person in the slightest myself, but it must be nice to be able to believe in a higher power so absolutely that you will do almost anything for the cause, I respect all religions whilst not believing in any myself.

I remember quotes a while ago from Ba saying that its much more important for him, and indeed most other muslims than football itself, and they would be willing to sit on the bench if the manager thought participating in ramadan would affect their performance on the field, which I think you have to say fair enough to, but the cynical side of me wonders if they would still see out ramadan if we were allowed to say cut their wages in half while they did? How many of them would stay committed after that I wonder?

 

Football could be seen as similar to religion, gathering in a place to effectively worship something for a while every weekend. However, looking at it cynically, and as an atheist, I could say football is not a religion because it involves worshipping something which actually exists

I respect our muslims views though, if that's what they choose to believe. As for the matter of later starts to the season, I guess it depends on when Ramadan actually is. It's earlier this year, so players will only be affected for one or two games.

 

No aspect of life - football, shop opening times, anything should be influenced by religion.

This is a secular society, in which, if you are religious, you are welcome to do your own thing; but don't expect anyone else to value your belief or change accordingly.

What a ridiculous notion. If you can't play a game due to some belief system - tough. Sorry, but... tough! Will you accept your weeks wages as well?

What a cancer, a plague upon our world the whole idea of religion is.

Now, I understand that sounds extreme... But this is ridiculous. It's 2012. When will people wake up and smell the coffee?

 

Suarez? is that you?

 

agree 100%.

If a Scientologist worked for your company, but was unable to perform his work for one month every year due to some command from an Alien space warlord millenia ago, as interpreted by an American sci-fi novellist in the 1950's - but still wanted to collect their full wages - would you be happy?

So how is this different than following the inconsistent & often re-interpreted ramblings of a desert warlord who claimed to have been spoken to by god back in 625bc, and one of his followers - centuries later - who decreed a month of fasting during sunlight hours (which is less problematic in equatorial regions, where seasonal differences don't impact sunrise & sunset times) - an arbritary measurement based on the Earth rotation & orbit round the sun (a concept that Allah failed to mention to Mohammed when revealing the secrets of the universe)

sorry, but religious traditions are nearly always ridiculous and outdated.

 

I think they just get some bait into them and stop being silly............................

Seriously in no way shape or form should we be altering season starts times to accomodate religious beliefs. That is not just because I am completely non religious and find the idea of gods ridiculous either. I just think you're opening a massive can of worms. You'll never be able to please all and it is really for the follower of any particular religion to find a way for it to work for them. You have to respect their beliefs and my personal opinion is you judge each individual case on its merit. Not all will be unable to perform due to fasting. If a certain individual is struggling due to fasting then just leave them out. Its their responsibility to get themselves in the best possible shape to perform. If their religion is preventing them doing that then I'm afraid its tough titty.

The other issue is of course if they are unable to put themself in shape to perform because of their religious beliefs, are they really fulfilling the terms of their contract? No they're not. I wouldn't expect clubs to punish individuals but they'd be well within their rights looking at it from an employer point of view.

 

If doing those things meant the player had more confidence in himself as a result of the belief, I'm not sure losing a couple of games (where you can still play them) is so terrible. And let's try and set it in a wider context. If you think of the thoroughly western footballers... Quite a few binge drink, get involved in bar fights, are involved in sexual assault charges, are on the back of the latest tabloids for cheating on wags etc etc. The individuals involved often exhibit a similar attitude to religion as yourself (though perhaps not so eloquently put), and I would argue these "spiritually-liberated" incidents bring the game and the clubs into disrepute and, I would argue, are far more impinging on team performance than fasting. Anyone who was at the Liverpool, Chelsea, or Man Utd home matches may agree. Muslim players are seldom involved in such matters, which can only be a good thing

 

Both are pretty stupid if I'm honest

 

Whole different area really and I don't think you can really link these things with holding certain beliefs on religion. That is just inaccurate for me. These things are dealt with by clubs because of the impact they have on team performance. If you bring your club into disrepute you are often left out and fined. The reason you are fined is because you have failed to fulfill the terms of your contract.

Similarily a club would be well within its write to fine a player who has failed to get himself in the required shape for the season because of their religious beliefs. Basically its for religion to adapt to football, not the other way on. To be honest a club probably never would fien a player for this reason and I wouldn't be surprised if its written into their contracts that their religious needs in terms of fasting are respected.

But where does it end? Do we stop playing on a Sunday to accomodate all the devout Christians in football?

Religion certainly does not make you a better footballer or create team spirit. Those come from hard work, natural ability, and good management.

 

actually, a small but well-publicised few do - and often it affect their game, and they get fined wages appropriately. Most footballers are professional athletes though.

They are making these choices and have personal responsibility for them. Religious people put the responsibility externally.

Religion may improve some people's game (in their minds), but I suspect training & professionalism has more to do with it.

To be fair, the idea that a god will help you score a goal is pretty ridiculous and narrow minded, even for a religious person.

 

We couldn't (and shouldn't) stop playing games on Sundays just to accomodate Christians who, because we'd also have to stop playing on Saturday's to accomodate Jews who wanted to observe their sabbath. If we're going to be respectful of religion, we should be respectful of all of them. The game should accomodate individuals where it can, but it should reorganise around religion.

Not all Christians take such a hard line on not working on Sundays. My own understanding of Sabbath is that it's more about the principle of taking a day of rest from your normal work and keeping some time clear to focus on God. Sunday's are the most convenient day for most Christians to do that, but it's not an immovable instruction that it has to be that day. Other Christians take a different view - Dan Walker who presents Football Focus is a Christian and from the very beginning of his career, he's made it clear (often when being interviewed for jobs) that he won't work on Sundays. One interviewer told him that he'd better be very very good at what he does, or he'll get nowhere in sports journalism with such a stance.

Having a faith isn't about compartmentalising life, your faith informs and influences everything you do. My understanding of human nature, influenced by my faith, affects the way I think about the things I like doing. For example, I believe humans are made in God's image. One aspect of that is that we are made with a capacity to be creative and to appreciate creativity when we see it. Part of football's appeal is that it caters to those natural capacities and allows us to marvel at people making use of their God-given creativity (maybe not if you're a Stoke fan - joking!).

Gavin Peacock (when he played for Chelsea, I think) sometimes used to travel back from matches in the luggage compartment of the team coach, because his faith meant he didn't want to watch the same videos that his team-mates wanted as their in-coach entertainment (quite how steamy the vids were, I don't know, but I gather the issue was strong sexual content. He didn't impose his views on his team-mates, denying them their choice of viewing, but he asserted his right not to have it forced on him. I don't know if that was ever an issue when he played for Newcastle, but I remember reading it in a book he wrote several years ago.

Fasting in Ramadan? I think Muslim players should be allowed to observe their faith, absolutely. The manager should also be absolutely entitled to make decisions about whether or not to play them during that time if he feels they aren't going to be the best choice for the team because of it. And as far as I'm aware, no Muslim players are complaining about being victimised over this.

If anyone is interested in more thought about this, I've written a short eBook about last season from a football-and-faith perspective. It's called 'Humbled for a Season: In defence of football' and it's on Amazon and iTunes. Sorry to crowbar a shameless plug into an interesting thread, but it seemed relevant (and a good opportunity!)

 

exactly.

 

I'm thinking of turning to religion because I've basically ruined my life and need hope.

 

There's always hope, Spaceboy, with or without religion. Some on here will tell you that religion is just a superstitious crutch with no place in the modern world, but faith - not religion - is about a relationship with God. If that is possible, it's very different to following a set of religious rules. Personally, I believe it is possible and it's real, though I respect that others think differently. If that sounds like something worth exploring, more power to you. But if not, there's always hope. I don't know how you think you've ruined your life, but I'm sure that it's not as absolute and disastrous as it seems. Don't give up on yourself (or God - it's not a case of one or the other).

 

Thanks captain! I'm on the bottom of a might heap but It's only going to get worse if I let it.

 

Quite right! One step at a time - and don't be afraid to ask for help, wherever that comes from.

 

I'm ready to die to be honest but I'm hoping things improve.

 

Can we not just have this twat banned?