Danedream rating

Danedream's triumph in Saturday's King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Stakes Sponsored by Betfair has been a given a rating of 122 by the Senior British Horseracing Authority handicapper Phil Smith.

That is six pounds below her runaway Qatar Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe victory at Longchamp last October.

The performance of the runner-up Nathaniel, who was conceding the three-pound sex allowance to the star German-trained filly when going down by the narrowest of margins in the Ascot showpiece, has been rated 124.

That is two pounds less than his win in the race 12 months ago, but the same as he recorded in the Coral-Eclipse two weeks ago.

It is also the same as St Nicholas Abbey's win in the Investec Coronation Cup (he ran to 122 in finishing third on Saturday), Camelot's Investec Derby triumph and the now retired So You Think's Prince of Wales's Stakes victory.

 

Seems low to me as well.

 

I'm beginning to feel a little guilty banging on about these ratings, but I think they have to seen for what they are, a loose assessment of past performances. I think the variables are much too wide to be able to rightfully gain a true indication of just how good a horse is or can be. Nobody gave any credit to her German form leading up to her Arc win. Maybe the standard of racing there is below that of the UK and France, but that should not in any way be used as a valid reason for determining Danedream's natural ability.

I think the problem lies in the way lesser races are run. Quite often they get along at a farcical pace early on which allows for a better chance of an upset. When she meets the best in the very top races, where a genuine pace is assured, she can be seen for what she really is, a cracking racehorse. She's much better than a 122.

 

Have to agree, Cyc, this is a case where a rating is surely a bit too low. Haven't a clue how they do it, but they could have underestimated Danedream, who will be much sought-after in the paddocks in the near future. Her victories include the 2011 Arc, 2012 King George, the 2011 Grosser Preis Von Baden, plus other notable performances. The only real blots that I can see were a mediocre performance in this year's Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud, and a 6th place at Longchamp in 2010 over 8f. in very soft ground. In all other races in which she did not actually win, she ran really well and was not far off the winner.

Danedream is a brilliant filly and a credit to all connected with her.

 

Hey Swanny, how's things mate? I don't know too much about German racing, but would she one of the best to come out of the country in a while?

 

Onya Oddy.

 

Do many of the top horses travel, or do trainers think the rest of Europe is too hard to crack?

 

I remember Star Appeal.

 

Shirocco seemed familar, but I think I got the wrong horse. I looked him up though, he was a quality horse. As well as winning the Breeder's Cup Turf in 05, he also won the Coronation Cup at Epsom in 06.

 

Am fine thank you, Cyc, sorry took so long to reply but missus put me to work . Oddy has answered your question in full and much more thoroughly than I could have! His top three were really good racehorses, and have certainly transferred their toughness (in particular) to their progeny. Star Appeal? Well, that was a right old shock when he won the Arc under Greville Starkey I believe? I will stay with the top three on Oddy's listing as the best to come out of Germany.

 

Certainly was a shock. Allez France (daughter of Sea Bird) and winner of the previous Arc, was the darling of French racing then and was beaten in that race, along with Dahlia. I remember being shocked at the winner that day, massive outsider.

PS yes it was Greville Starkey.

 

What is the most glaring thing to come out of the rating was it's comparrison to the Derby winning performance. To win that race Danedream had to beat multiple group 1 winning horses from all countries and all ages whilst Camelot had to beat nothing higher than a group 3 winning 3 year old and those behind were Main Sequance, Astrology and Bonfire. It is hard to asses horses due to the opposition but if thats what they are going to do they need be realistic. What i find with rating is that they have a problem the moment they have rated their first horse because everything has to be tied in to that first rating and it then becomes impossible.

What i was pleased to see most of all was that the King George looked like it should this year with a high quality turn out. I sadly had Nathaniel and missed out on quite a big payout by that nose as had it in a couple of decent doubles but that's how it goes, i am pleased the winner confirmed that the Arc was not a freak result as could have been suspected after her last run.

 

Yes, Bluesky9, you were very unlucky there. If ever a race was 'on the nod' it was that one. I was amazed she got up. I dunno, sometimes with these 'nose' results, I feel a 'dead-heat' would possibly be fairer? But with modern technology, they'll soon be giving 'half-a-nose'; that'll be even harder to take......

 

I like this thread, well done Ardent. I'm off to bed but was wondering what other horses are hovering around 122 and how they compare in ability to Danedream?

 

'Night Cyc.

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