A little frustrated

[robbieBB]

Why when people are disappointed we missed out on Clyne for a tribunal fee do they get tarred as "we need to avoid panic buying"..becoming a very popular and meaningless sentence on this board recently.

Following on from my previous post, "panic buying" is indeed a meaningless phrase when talking about a well run club. Makes me thing of the flak directed at Arsenal last summer. Does anybody think now that Arteta was "a panic buy"? As I see it, Wenger almost certainly believed he would keep one of Fabregas and Nasri; but he would still have a plan in place for the worst case scenario of losing both. When it actually happened he activated the contingency plan and brought in Arteta. The rest is history as they say. "Panic buying" may be meaningless; "well run club" is not".

 

[YellowLittle]

Following on from my previous post, "panic buying" is indeed a meaningless phrase when talking about a well run club. Makes me thing of the flak directed at Arsenal last summer. Does anybody think now that Arteta was "a panic buy"? As I see it, Wenger almost certainly believed he would keep one of Fabregas and Nasri; but he would still have a plan in place for the worst case scenario of losing both. When it actually happened he activated the contingency plan and brought in Arteta. The rest is history as they say. "Panic buying" may be meaningless; "well run club" is not".

Mertesacker, Park Chu Young and Andre Santos were panic buys though. Arteta was good fair enough but 1 out of 4 is not a good record for succesful signings. Bit off topic but I just think Wenger has never really adapted to today's game. He still think his philosophy in the late 90's can still work today. You don't buy Henry's for £11M anymore and Patrick Viera for 3.5M. Frankly would hate to be an Arsenal fan.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

i still think all of those buys by arsenal were 'panic buys'. i've always been a big fan of arteta but personally i felt his best years were behind him. last season he was excellent and proved me wrong - i'd argue he was arsenal's most important player - but he was a panic buy, as was mertesacker. the two young lads were less so, not that either player is particularly good.

 

[Canary Rob]

Mertesacker, Park Chu Young and Andre Santos were panic buys though. Arteta was good fair enough but 1 out of 4 is not a good record for succesful signings. Bit off topic but I just think Wenger has never really adapted to today's game. He still think his philosophy in the late 90's can still work today. You don't buy Henry's for £11M anymore and Patrick Viera for 3.5M. Frankly would hate to be an Arsenal fan.

I'm not sure I totally agree with this. Santos was the only one who seemed to be a panic buy, but he was pretty good going forward towards the end of the season, looked very dangerous imo, so obviously needed a little time to integrate.

Mertesacker was not panic-buying at all- a seasoned international brought into a defence that was renowned the year before for struggling. It was quite clear that had been on the cards for a while. Yes, he had a bit of a 'mare against us, but if you speak to most Arsenal fans they rate him pretty highly so I hardly think he was a disaster.

As for Park- that was just bizarre. Not really a panic buy, but very odd!

 

[YellowLittle]

I'm not sure I totally agree with this. Santos was the only one who seemed to be a panic buy, but he was pretty good going forward towards the end of the season, looked very dangerous imo, so obviously needed a little time to integrate.

Mertesacker was not panic-buying at all- a seasoned international brought into a defence that was renowned the year before for struggling. It was quite clear that had been on the cards for a while. Yes, he had a bit of a 'mare against us, but if you speak to most Arsenal fans they rate him pretty highly so I hardly think he was a disaster.

As for Park- that was just bizarre. Not really a panic buy, but very odd!

All in the last two days of the transfer window after losing Nasri and Fabregas, if that's not panic buying I'm not sure what is?

I know a few Arsenal fans and what they say about Mertesacker is he is a pile of ****e.

And Park was also a panic buy, probably the best example of the lot, pressure from the fans got to him so signed these all in last two days of window. Them four players I work out were about £30 million all together and one of them is actually in the starting 11. If that's not panic buying I don't know what is

 

[robbieBB]

Mertesacker, Park Chu Young and Andre Santos were panic buys though. Arteta was good fair enough but 1 out of 4 is not a good record for succesful signings. Bit off topic but I just think Wenger has never really adapted to today's game. He still think his philosophy in the late 90's can still work today. You don't buy Henry's for £11M anymore and Patrick Viera for 3.5M. Frankly would hate to be an Arsenal fan.

Don't agree at all about those three being "panic buys". Mertesacker had been on the Arsenal radar for several months; it's just that everybody expected Wenger to go for Cahill, or at least thought he should. Santos was bought in early summer as back up for Gibbs once Clichy had left for Man City. Park wasn't really brought in to replace anybody; just a squad player. "Panic buys" are made last minute in desperation, grasping at straws. Only Arteta was a last minute buy, and as I said, can't be described as a "desperation" buy, or a matter of grasping at a straw. A quality player, well-known to Wenger, who proved exactly what was needed following Nasri's last minute departure.

 

[goldeneadie]

Now, im not here to be doom mongering or slate the manager/board or whatever but i am slightly a tad peeved about how are transfer business is at the moment compared to other sides. We are getting left behind abit now, and the difference is with us compared to others were not improving on our starting XI. Take swansea, they might be losing joe allen which will be a big loss but they're getting an absalute bargain in michu and have also approached bolton for mark davies. Soton have signed Clyne, Jay Rod, Steven Davis to name a few, Reading have signed Gunter, Mariappa, McGleary, Guthrie +others. There are some real decent signings there which are costing the clubs peanuts and i do not understand why we hadnt/havent tried to sign or have signed any of these.

Gunter £2mil
Mariappa £2mil
Clyne £1.5-2mil
Davis Free
Guthrie Free

Yet were p***yfooting around making p**stake bids for arguebly one of the best wingers outside the premiership. If we have the cash, and we want him then go and get him cause it doesnt look like others are messing around. I know that we want to try and get him for as little as possible but if we miss out on him cause we were trying to be too clever then i wont be happy. Another week down and closer too the season and so far no improvement to our best starting XI and a slight squad improvement overall!

I will proberbly get a grilling but hey-ho... Rant over!

..........so, basically you are saying that you would make a better manager than hughton, who did not try to buy any of these players. maybe he doesn't rate them as much as you or maybe he has other, and possibly better, targets in his sights. just relax and trust him to get things right.

 

[Canary Rob]

All in the last two days of the transfer window after losing Nasri and Fabregas, if that's not panic buying I'm not sure what is?

I know a few Arsenal fans and what they say about Mertesacker is he is a pile of ****e.

And Park was also a panic buy, probably the best example of the lot, pressure from the fans got to him so signed these all in last two days of window. Them four players I work out were about £30 million all together and one of them is actually in the starting 11. If that's not panic buying I don't know what is

The only thing is, how can it be a panic buy if it's not replacing the players who left?

Arteta and Park were the only real replacements- and I suspect they'd lined Arteta up for a while in fact, so hardly panic! On second thoughts, I agree about Park, but I still think his transfer was so odd considering what's happened since it goes beyond that!

Yeah, there are mixed opinions about Mertesacker, but he was brought in to shore up the defence- this was not a problem caused by the loss of Nasri and Fabregas- again, can't be classed as panic when it was obvious they had been trying to do something there anyway. The Arsenal fans that don't like him are those that feel he is too slow- that's fine, but as a defender he is very good and both the fans I know have said they really like him just because he is different to what they already have. It was no surprise to me that Arsenal's good run of form up to Christmas and over New Year coincided with Mertesacker finally adapting to the physicality of the league. Their form dipped after he got the ankle injury that put him out for the rest of the season. If he hadn't got injured, who knows?

The whole "starting eleven" thing isn't really fair though- Santos is pretty much guaranteed a space on the bench and finished the season strongly. Mertesacker is a player that will start against certain teams- some Arsenal fans were calling for him ahead of Vermaelen because they see the latter as a liability- and will be on the bench others. So they are both in and around the starting line-up.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they are great signings, but I really don't they are as bad as people seem to think. Mertesacker's record speaks for itself.

 

[Canary Rob]

Don't agree at all about those three being "panic buys". Mertesacker had been on the Arsenal radar for several months; it's just that everybody expected Wenger to go for Cahill, or at least thought he should. Santos was bought in early summer as back up for Gibbs once Clichy had left for Man City. Park wasn't really brought in to replace anybody; just a squad player. "Panic buys" are made last minute in desperation, grasping at straws. Only Arteta was a last minute buy, and as I said, can't be described as a "desperation" buy, or a matter of grasping at a straw. A quality player, well-known to Wenger, who proved exactly what was needed following Nasri's last minute departure.

Exactly

 

[YellowLittle]

Don't agree at all about those three being "panic buys". Mertesacker had been on the Arsenal radar for several months; it's just that everybody expected Wenger to go for Cahill, or at least thought he should. Santos was bought in early summer as back up for Gibbs once Clichy had left for Man City. Park wasn't really brought in to replace anybody; just a squad player. "Panic buys" are made last minute in desperation, grasping at straws. Only Arteta was a last minute buy, and as I said, can't be described as a "desperation" buy, or a matter of grasping at a straw. A quality player, well-known to Wenger, who proved exactly what was needed following Nasri's last minute departure.

Think you'll find they all completed August 31st 2011. After Nasri's departure.

Also you could argue that Mertersacker was panic buy because Cahill fell through.

And didn't Gibbs get an injury before season started, again panic buy.

 

[YellowLittle]

The only thing is, how can it be a panic buy if it's not replacing the players who left?

Arteta and Park were the only real replacements- and I suspect they'd lined Arteta up for a while in fact, so hardly panic! On second thoughts, I agree about Park, but I still think his transfer was so odd considering what's happened since it goes beyond that!

Yeah, there are mixed opinions about Mertesacker, but he was brought in to shore up the defence- this was not a problem caused by the loss of Nasri and Fabregas- again, can't be classed as panic when it was obvious they had been trying to do something there anyway. The Arsenal fans that don't like him are those that feel he is too slow- that's fine, but as a defender he is very good and both the fans I know have said they really like him just because he is different to what they already have. It was no surprise to me that Arsenal's good run of form up to Christmas and over New Year coincided with Mertesacker finally adapting to the physicality of the league. Their form dipped after he got the ankle injury that put him out for the rest of the season. If he hadn't got injured, who knows?

The whole "starting eleven" thing isn't really fair though- Santos is pretty much guaranteed a space on the bench and finished the season strongly. Mertesacker is a player that will start against certain teams- some Arsenal fans were calling for him ahead of Vermaelen because they see the latter as a liability- and will be on the bench others. So they are both in and around the starting line-up.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they are great signings, but I really don't they are as bad as people seem to think. Mertesacker's record speaks for itself.

I just said above about Mertesacker and Santos to RobbieBB

Fair enough on other points, but if I was an Arsenal fan I still wouldn't we happy spending £10 Mill on a defender like Mertesacker and £7 Mill on SAntos and PArk

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

who cares about arsenal anyway? after some of the things said after our match at the emirates re: johnson/sagna, they are right near the top of my most hated list.

 

[YellowLittle]

who cares about arsenal anyway? after some of the things said after our match at the emirates re: johnson/sagna, they are right near the top of my most hated list.

I enjoy football in general supers, plus there is not much else to talk about.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

I enjoy football in general supers, plus there is not much else to talk about.

yeah, sorry - wasn't saying we can't talk about them, just that their fans really got on my wick last season. some of the crap they came out with was preposterous and it seems some of their fans are morphing into their manager.

 

[YellowLittle]

yeah, sorry - wasn't saying we can't talk about them, just that their fans really got on my wick last season. some of the crap they came out with was preposterous and it seems some of their fans are morphing into their manager.

Sorry, didn't mean to say that in such a blunt way, edited it with a smiley ha

Yeah, if RVP goes that would be a massive blow for them, I don't particularly rate Podolski and don't know much abour Giroud but will he be able to step in RVP's shoes? big ask

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

i don't rate podolski AT ALL. people will bang on about how many caps he's got but fact is, if he didn't play on the left for germany he wouldn't have even a quarter of the caps. not sure about giroud - his rise has been almost as epic as holt's and who knows, he might do well, but i don't think he really fits into arsenal's style and i reckon he could end up being another chamakh. to be honest, i thought arsenal were really poor last season but were helped along the way by the inability of their rivals to capitalise.

 

[robbieBB]

Think you'll find they all completed August 31st 2011.

Yes, my mistake, apologies. But to repeat: "panic buys" are made in desperation, grasping at straws. The signings we are talking about were last minute yes, but "desperate etc.", no.

 

[gruffnuts]

He still think his philosophy in the late 90's can still work today. You don't buy Henry's for £11M anymore and Patrick Viera for 3.5M. Frankly would hate to be an Arsenal fan.

Really disagree on the above...

Thing is, Henry who joined wasn't close to the player he was once he was under wengers wing - he made him into the world class striker he became - 11million was absolutely what he was worth on joining - before joining up with wenger he was playing out wide and scoring the odd goal but nothing compared to what he became at arsenal when played up front - wenger made him...with the right player I don't see why he couldn't do that again...vierra wasn't getting a game in Italy when he came here, so 3.5m for a guy who'd only played for an average team in France was probably what he was worth...

 

[Canary Rob]

I just said above about Mertesacker and Santos to RobbieBB

Fair enough on other points, but if I was an Arsenal fan I still wouldn't we happy spending £10 Mill on a defender like Mertesacker and £7 Mill on SAntos and PArk

Definitely agree with you re the prices- particularly Park! Santos was actually £6m fwiw... But still quite a high price for an obvious back-up! As I said above, with the injury to Gibbs I'm inclined to think Santos was a bit panicky, but I suspect he had been on their radar for a while.

You have to bear in mind that the day a deal is "completed" is often irrelevant. It tells you nothing about how long the deal had been planned for. It was pretty obvious that the Mertesacker deal had been going on for a while. I don't know about Park and Arteta. I'm inclined to think Arteta had already been lined up for a while on the off-chance Fabregas was sold.


Is he over-priced at £10m? I'm not so sure- he had 70 odd Germany caps at the time and is still obviously class. The problem is, in retrospect, he took several months to really get going and then went and got injured a couple of months later, so it sounds like a bad deal.

 

[robbieBB]

.... i thought arsenal were really poor last season but were helped along the way by the inability of their rivals to capitalise.

Yes, poor by their own high standards, but still finished 3rd and in the CL! You can always put someone's relative success down to the failings of their rivals, but I enjoy seeing belief, spirit and defying the odds (and the doom-mongers). As is commonly said, at the end of the season the table doesn't lie.