No, because you are missing the basic principal that racism is racism. Just because you don't offend the victim, doesn't mean it is right. If you punch someone in the street but it does not hurt them, is that not classed as assault then?
No, it's not really that wrong. If there was history of whites being oppressed on a global scale by "black" people or Asians, then it would touch a nerve and be very offensive as it would relate to that oppression that the whites once received. Racism's existence is based on white belief of supremacy. It was created by white people as a means to achieve greater wealth and dominance over the world.
Perhaps you'd like to compare your thoughts on the subject with those who are apparently in the know: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01ks3vh/Advantage_Home/ BTW, It's Advantage Home. I could have sworn the announcer said it the other way around. Anyway, I'm off to watch that BBC3 documentary. Night all.
Yeah it is, but you'll be punished less severely than you would if you did hurt them! You've just provided a perfect example for my point. The more damage you do, the worse your sentence. Touch someone without hurting them at all, then there's a case for assault/battery. Punch someone and draw blood or break their jaw, you get assault occasioning GBH.
It was a very good program. Did any of you think about us saints fans during the program? I did. I think there maybe some subconscious racism at saints. It may just be coincidence but watching the program made me think about the player who seemed to get most stick from the crowd last season and which player did the season before that. I am not saying we are racist, but this fact about these two saints players provoked some thought. My Dad is obviously from an older generation from me and I would not say he is aggressively racist, however I am always having to pull him up for remarks that I see as racist. For example during one game last year, our opponents (can't remember who) brought on a black player, to which my Dad remarked that until them there had been no black players on the pitch. To him it was just an observation, but to me it showed me that his subconscious had noted the number of black players on the game. This is just a very non impacting example, but I bet there are a lot of his generation that follow similar thought processes.
When I lived in Soton, I was frequently referred to as Jock, and the usual comments about kilts, haggis, etc. Usually it was in banter, and a good laugh. Occasionally it wasn`t however - I ended up in a scrap one Sunday evening on the Common while on my way to the Cowherds - being Scottish was the excuse for them starting it, the real reason was I was seeing a nice local girl who was acquainted with them.
I very thoughful and intelligent piece of television which raised some very good questions. The programme had an advantage in being presented by Clarke Carlisle who is both articulate and knowledgeable. I agree about the comment about Jenas who came across extremely well. A couple of points are worth discussing. The lack of Asian players is a disgrace and it seems a huge miscalculation for English and Scottish clubs not to wake up and take advantage of this homegrown talent. It appears that the situation is about 40-50 years behind where were are now with black players. The issue of coloured managers is always one that intrigues but I've never really felt anyone has properly explained this even though Barnes is certainly correct to a degree. How many black players are taking coaching qualifications and how many are applying for manager positions? This is an issue that was not dealt with. I think that this is perhaps a generation thing and the 25% of black players will filter through into management. It might also be worthwhile reflecting how many English managers there are in the PL, for example and perhaps commenting that foreign coaches are statistically over-represented in the PL? Certainly I think racism does play a part but it is a shame that John Barnes is always taken as an example and not someone like Chris Houghton. I think Barnes would have been given more of a chance had he not experienced the difficulties at Celtic which was the wrong club for a rookie manager and then the nightmare he experienced at Tranmere would probably have mean't he would have struggled to salvage a reputation if he was white, green or purple. I would imagine that we will see this situation change within the next 5-10 years as it is a problem within the English game to successfully nurture any kind of English manager. My opinion is that fans would not have any sort of problem with a black manager - all they want is their team to be a success. The final point I wanted to raise was to do with intelligence and up-bringing. This was not touched on in the documentary and I feel has been ignored by the press in the covering of the John Terry court case. I don't think that the whole sport should be judged by someone of Terry's suspect character and similarly I feel that the recent fuss about Rio Ferdinand's comments on Twitter have to exagerated. In both cases, the footballers are lacking intellect - in Rio's case is it pretty common knowledge that he is not the sharpest tool in the box. Why are these player's comments worthy of reporting? For my money, their use of language only serves to demonstrate that they in inarticulate and it is perhaps not surprising that they fall foul of the parties intent on cleaning football of it's sometimes unsavory image. There is a wider issue here and I think it is the lack of sportsmanship and respect for the fellow professional. Up-bringing and education are also likely to have had as important impact as being blantantly racist. It is strange how last season was affected by the Suarez and Terry incidents. In both cases the matters should have been dealt with by the game and far for swiftly. Dalglish made a huge error in backing his man when Saurez' contract should have been terminated there and then. The message it gave was that Liverpool condoned racism. In the case of Terry, it would have been better had his England career been halted immediately. I don't think Terry's case should have gone to court because of the difficulty with the burden of proof but both Chelsea and the FA should have reacted swiftly to ensure that any sanction was justified and if necessary, properly penalised. All told, a very good piece of television journalism.
The Suarez case made me think that there must be a really deeply embedded problem of racism in Argentina, and probably most South American countries. It seems that it's totally acceptable over there to go up to a black person and call them "negro".
Mr Thumwood makes a good point that I made to my wife while watching: how many black players take their coaching qualifications and what then is the % that get jobs. I believe it should be more than current numbers. As for John Barnes, I always felt that he blames his colour whereas he had two opportunities and failed twice and I can't help but wonder if people amd players I'm football simply spread the word that he wasn't good as a manager. A better example for me would be Paul Ince. He did a great job at MK Dons and then was sacked very early by Blackburn. I'd like to know if he has been applying for jobs and if so, why he hasn't been given another chance.
Wouldn't surprise me. Argentina especially is just a mess. Doubt they get much in the way of education about racism.
This is why it can be quite difficult. Sometimes the reason black managers aren't chosen and in jobs for long enough is simply because they aren't much cop. This can only be resolved by encouraging more black players and people in general to get trained up with their badges and give them the opportunities they deserve in the lower leagues at first - as Clark Carlisle said - by having quotas for job interviews.
Worth considering that there might not be that many football-loving Asians in the country. Many Indians/Pakistanis aspire to be cricketers rather than footballers. Also that orientals tend to be slightly smaller than other races and the British system favours big kids. How did the program cover this?
If we just look at a few Asians to play in England - Lee Dong-Gook, Dong Fangzhao, Sun Jihai - they've just not been very good. I think Itchen North Matt is right in saying it's just because they're not that interested in football, so not many play it - the shocking standard of the Chinese domestic league shows this, and the rapidly growing standard of the J-League as football is becoming more popular in Japan is further evidence.
I don't believe "it was a very good piece of television journalism". It took a couple of high profile cases, as evidence of racism being prevalent in this country today. Yet, the two current players in the programme (Carlisle and Jenas) hadn't experienced it themselves on home soil. It then used experiences of former players and problems in Eastern Europe to to try and make their case on the state of the British game now. If there is one area in our society which has made real progress in making people aware of the wrongs of racism it is football. I'm not denying there are still racists among us but even they know that if they spout their abuse at a football match in this country, there is a good chance they will be punished for it. The same can't be said in other European countries. The programme was unessecarily negative when you consider the progress made in recent years.
Not a fan of affirmative action. We're trying to make everything inclusive & fair. This rule does nothing to do that. England need more qualified coaches full stop. As widely reported we are way down compared to Spain, Germany and Italy. As far as black coaches this will naturally rise as the black population has increased, the percentage of black players has increased dramatically over the last 20 odd years and as these players retire they will take non playing jobs within football.
