For reference, here's the full text of terry's original police statement: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/interactive/2012/jul/10/john-terry-police-interview-text Having read it, I'll be surprised if he's not found guilty, because even if everything he says is true (which it can't be because there are major inconsistencies) then he admits saying it, and saying it whilst angry. Whether or not it's said in response to anything Anton says, the line gets drawn legally at that point by my understanding. By the strict legal definition of the offence he is being charged with, and the circumstances under which he says it was said, he's guilty.
Well you've clearly not been on this Board long Renault or you'd know that I've answered this question 20-odd times in the last eight months. I'm pretty sure people are sick and tired of my waffle on this subject so I don't know why I keep getting asked to explain myself...........again. For the last time and exactly the same as the first day the story broke, here's what I think: Two Pro Footballers, in a highly charged atmosphere, get into a bit of fisticuffs on the field of play. Testosterone is high and words are exchanged. After the game, handshakes and apologies are offered all round (apparently). However, Ferdinand gets wind that Terry called him a black something or other and decides to take umbrage. The following day, instead of coming out and saying "myself and JT shook hands after the game and its now all forgotten about", Ferdinand plays the victim card and allows the whole thing escalate out of control. What should have been an open and shut case between two grown men, now becomes a circus with QPR suffering the spotlight and Ferdinand's performances going down the drain - helping drag the team to the bottom of the League. Whatever about someone else making the complaint to the police, Ferdinand could easily have nipped it all in the bud by saying he was partly to blame for the on-field spat (this is, after all, a mans game that most of us have played and sometimes things get said in the heat of the moment that neither party mean). Time drags on and his idiot brother gets himself involved in the issue which thankfully saw him excluded from the England squad for the Euros. If people don't see how ridiculous this case is, when a multi-millionaire footballer decides after seeing on his girlfriend's Blackberry that he doesn't like what another multi-millionaire footballer has said to him, then I'm sorry but the World has gone crazy. When we're swamped on all sides by real tragedy and hatred in the real World, we're supposed to feel sorry for a Clown that got himself into an argument but then starts to whinge when he doesn't like what was said back to him. As a side note. Ever since this story broke, its quite amusing that every single person I've talked to about this -bar none- have the exact same take on it as I do. As recently as last night, I was talking to a chap who brought it up and said pretty much the same thing I'm saying. Then I come on here and its the complete opposite. That leads me to conclude that it must be this childish QPR/Chelsea thing that has people so irate. In fact, I'd bet they've a different slant on it over on the Chelsea Board. I have absolutely no doubt that I'm 100% right on this one and its about time the rest of you woke up and stopped getting sucked in by the hype. (P.S. Do you think there would have been this kind of frenzy if someone was called a "white c*nt"? Not likely.)
Sorry - I know we've done this before - but 'partly to blame'? How - for being black? You're completely deluded if you think that there's any justification, in an argument of any level, for bringing someone's race into the argument to aggravate and intensify the level of abuse you are aiming at them. Anton did not, and has not, ever sought this attention. However, the CPS have called him as a witness under oath and he is legally bound to appear and say what happened. You seem to believe that he has some chioce in whether or not he gets offended by this, and seem to be saying it's his own fault, as if there's something wrong in being black, or if you are, he shouldn't respond in kind when abused 'normally' because by doing so he deserves whatever he gets? Sorry Swords, but that's just completely stupid. I don't believe that you think that, and I certainly don't believe that 'everyone you talk to' believes that as well, unless you only mention this at certain, special-interest group meetings.
Whilst probably not in the best of taste, you're going a bit far getting offended at that, are you not?
Willy lets not, please. If you don't believe I think that or that everyone I've talked to don't either, that's fine. Maybe it makes you feel better thinking that, I don't know. Believe what you want. You no doubt believe too that Ferdinand's supposed insults at Terry were fair game. That's fine too. I'm not going to get into this with you again.
where's the line though, Swords? Can you let us know what is acceptable, and what pushes an insult over the line into racism? I'm keen to know, just so we understand your point of view better.
Can I suggest you stop posting your crap, then? Because everything you post seems to suggest that you believe racist abuse is OK. certainly that THIS racist abuse was OK. However, you don't ever seem to beable to provide a single, coherent argument in support of your stance, you just start blaming Anton Ferdinand, and saying you're right and everyone else here is wrong. That's not a coherent argument, that's just being an arse for the sake of it.
It would bring a bit of balance to the argument if nothing else. Even DL in his own reserved and measured way is closer to my stance than a lot of you.
Swords, this is the first time that I have become involved in this discussion. I have watched with interest your firm unwavering stance on this situation. You make your point clearly. I understand what you are saying, I just disagree mate. I think you are missing the bigger picture. I too have played ball at a decent level. I have made/received tough/dangerous tackles. I have said things on the pitch that i later regretted and even apologised to opposition players for. I accept your point that a person can say or do things on a pitch that is often out of character. In the heat of battle we can make mistakes. However, in this instance JT did not call Anton a bo**ox or a useless c**t, or a nancy boy or any other foul language that you can think of. He racially abused him. This was the England captain SWORDS. The one person that should set the example for all other players. The one person who's behavior should be beyond reproach. Although great work has been done and much achieved to stamp out racism in football it sadly still exists. This can't be tolerated in sport. By not condoning what JT said, in principal you are saying that black players should accept being abused because of the colour of their skin. Come on Swords. While i generally agree with the rule of thumb, that whatever happens or is said on a pitch stays on a pitch, this incident is different. I really can't understand how you can't see that.
You're right, I don't condone JT. I've called him a prat. I think hes a moron. I'm no John Terry apologist NUTS! I believe neither of them have covered themselves in glory here.
Swords, you are in Dublin and 'everyone' you speak to agrees with you, I can only conclude that Dublin is a place to avoid if it is full of morons like you that think it's ok to call anyone a 'f*cking black c*nt'. Terry is on trial because there is evidence he broke the law whether you agree or not...
You don't have to come to Dublin mate. Just walk over to Chelsea and I'm sure you'll find plenty there too. Which shows that this is more about football tribalism than anything else. (Not that I particularly like Chelsea fans. I couldn't care less about them)
Anton, has done nothing wrong. He was racially abused, he was called to give evidence and did so under oath. I make the point again, should Anton have to accept being racially abused? A simple yes or no.
No, it's about a racially aggravated public order offence. Club loyalties, whilst clearly present, have no hearing on his guilt (or innocence)
Sooper, I'm in Dublin too and I don't agree with Swords in the slightest. Everybody I speak to thinks he is guilty as hell and hopes he pays the price for what he said. I think the question to Swords should be, is it right to call a person a black c***? Ignore the fact it was said on a football pitch. Is that right? Yes or no? Simple answer Swords, please. Yes or no.
It depends on the context, Ive got a German friend that uses the word. Kraut on its own isnt offensive, only when used with an insult. Just like black on its own is not offensive until used to insult someone.
